thanks and i agree especially the no-compromise.

however my rant continues - there must be a better way.

i am going to look for the man from borland (i think his name is
kahn).



On Oct 31, 9:59 am, Cerebrus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think the problem lies in the mindset of the programmer. Every
> budding programmer, when asked, will readily recite to you the tenets
> of OOP. But do they really understand them enough to *use* them ? No,
> I don't see it happening at all. Writing performant code requires you
> to know about ten different ways of accomplishing the same thing, each
> of which is suited to a particular scenario, so that you can decide
> which one is best in this case. How many programmers can think of one
> method (let alone ten), without having to resort to Google ? Writing
> secure code requires you to think pessimistically - "All input is evil
> unless proven otherwise.", for instance. How many programmers validate
> every single piece of input they receive, as a principle ?
>
> For most programmers, code reusability is being able to copy and paste
> the code everywhere with minor modifications, but that's not actually
> reusability. The problem is also that procedural programming (as
> opposed to Object Oriented) is too easy and doesn't require you to
> think about the possibilities beforehand. It allows you to dive right
> in and apply the patchwork as you go.
>
> Secondly, the problem is in the education. We stress inordinately upon
> the theory of OOP, rather than the implementation. I think OOP is not
> something to learn... it is a skill to inculcate. And it takes
> sustained effort and strict personal standards. Most IT certification
> exams expect a candidate to select a correct option in a multiple
> choice format, instead of requiring them to come up with some code.
>
> The problem also lies in the mindset of the Management. Tight delivery
> schedules and strained resource availability further reinforce a focus
> on getting the job done, not on how it was done or how scalable and
> performant it was. If (or rather "When") problems are encountered
> later, quickfixes are the best solution to the matter, rather than a
> complete redesign to match changed requirements.
>
> You can get an idea of the situation from the fact that most of my
> colleagues regard me as eccentric because I am the only one who will
> not compromise on the quality of my own or my team's code.
>
> You ask why we're still at the same level as years ago. I think it's
> because the creation of software is driven by business considerations
> and not the sole pleasure of creating software. The reward is not in
> the work itself but in the (material) gains associated with the
> completed product. Maybe that's why coders are not artists, but just
> labourers.
>
> *rant over* ;-)
>
> On Oct 31, 1:48 am, flatfilehater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > So I am not the last survivor of the Osborne 'laptop' age!
>
> > I am a coding addict - I still get a kick out of having things work
> > and seeing others work with it.
>
> > the root of my gripe is actually stuff like php and mysql which most
> > isp's over here (south africa) use.
>
> > when i attacked these things, it was a step backwards (probably many
> > steps). it was like dealing with random access  records from flat
> > files (but with built in filters and indexing). I thought I had died
> > and this was hell.
>
> > i am getting into xml (slowly) and am searching for a way to deal
> > decently with many to many's.
>
> > any ideas out there?
>
> > On Oct 21, 8:16 pm, Glenn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Ah, someone else that remembers that era!!
>
> > > I guess there are still enough of us out here that still like to write
> > > code.  Unfortunately, most of the "code generators" out there don't do a
> > > very good job or don't have the ability to generate all the possibilities
> > > that we need.  Therefore, we use them to get close and then fill in the
> > > blanks with actual coding.
>
> > > By doing actual coding I think we can achieve the level of re-use if we 
> > > code
> > > it properly. After a bit of coding, we find that we collect a large enough
> > > library that we can start re-using what we have already written.  However,
> > > many students out there that frequent this group only accomplish what they
> > > can with the code generators (a.k.a., wizards) and don't go beyond that
> > > stage.
>
> > > I think it will be long after we're out of here that someone will be able 
> > > to
> > > sit down at a computer, tell it what type of program it wants and have the
> > > computer create it for them.  However, that only seems to exist in science
> > > fiction right now.
>
> > > ...Glenn
>
> > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:16 PM, flatfilehater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > as reply to mails, i am from pre-ms generation.
>
> > > > when ms arrived the things had to be ibm compatible - it worked by
> > > > creating a relatively common denominator (lowest maybe) for making
> > > > mass software feasible (lotus 123 was the spreadsheet of the era but
> > > > visicalc was the first; ashton tate's dbase became the database entry
> > > > level later).
>
> > > > the paradigm shifted with borland turbo pascall - libraries of code
> > > > were applied to cut down repetitive coding (i think borland was the
> > > > first to use the term window - the mouse arrived with ventura
> > > > publishing).
>
> > > > this shift was a breath of fresh air and we all said that we were well
> > > > on the way to a new generation which would automate even further and
> > > > almost interpret things into plain english.
>
> > > > now about 25 years on, we are still tick-ticking in code via a babel
> > > > of languages - analyse the repetitive nature of the info being sought
> > > > in the group and it seems that most are reinventing a wheel.
>
> > > > of course i am getting old and cranky but not without reasonable cause
> > > > - the very attainable things and logicalprogresshave not happened.
>
> > > > time for coffee and a smoke!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

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