Barry A. Wilson wrote:
> While on DSTAR you have two options which you can implement. one is DSQL
> - Digital Call Sign Squelch and the other is CSQL - Digital Code Squelch
> TSQL - Tone Squelch (CTCSS) and DTCS - Digital Tone Squelch are available
> on analog modes as before on the D-STAR capable radios
Neither of which can be used at the repeater. The repeater always
repeats valid digital signals in the D-STAR format.
> I guess if you set the CSQL you would have to know which one was in use
> to access the repeater. I too thought the idea of "closed repeaters" was
> out the door.
This starts to get off-topic for the list, but no "closed" repeater was
ever really closed from a technical standpoint. If you found the right
tone or knew the "secret" DTMF or whatever, you could probably use it.
The issue is a legal one -- the FCC recognizes that all repeater
owner/operators have final say on who uses their transmitters, which is
*as it should be*, since the repeater callsign trustee is responsible
for all repeater transmissions here in the U.S. (Pardon me please, the
folks -- of which there are many -- who are not in the U.S. on this
list. Your rules differ, and you know them better than I.)
> I would hope that frequency coordinators would opt to give
> out available frequencies to "Open" systems.
Frequency coordination, properly done, plays no favorites with open or
closed systems, other than to "encourage" the best utilization of the
spectrum for as many users as possible.
The job of the coordinator is to coordinate for interference purposes,
not to push a social agenda. Good ones know this and are limited by
their organization's by-laws. Bad ones, well... let's not go there.
That's WAY off-topic, but there are mailing lists where coordination
policy can be discussed. It's probably best not to take it too much
further here. We're an International group here. In many countries,
coordination is done by the legal body that manages Amateur Radio
spectrum directly, and "volunteer coordination" is something they've
never heard of, nor can use.
> In numerous cases HRO in
> cooperation with ICOM have made D-STAR Repeater Stacks available to local
> sponsors to encourage the use of D-STAR. One of the requirements is that the
> systems remain "OPEN" to all D-STAR users during an agreed upon period to
> encourage D-STAR use.
Incorrect. Most of the HRO-operated systems are operated directly by
hams at HRO's interested in running them for Icom.
You're thinking of our local system here in Colorado, which instead of
being run by HRO, was put up via an RFP (Request for Proposal) process
by HRO locally -- to the "best" organization to operate it.
The requirements in that RFP and the resulting operating agreement were
that the system remain open to all for 5 years.
The group that won the RFP in Colorado was the Colorado D-STAR
Association, and we're operating the system as 100% open, no dues, no
club membership required, as required by the understanding with HRO.
There are additional requirements of our contract, but it is not common
to see this anywhere but here. (Basically the HRO store is in a huge
hole RF-wise, and it was very smart of them to look for an entity that
could get the machine up higher. It also brought together multiple
groups here in Colorado to manage the system under the new organization,
which was an intended side-effect.)
In some cities, HRO employees "babysit" the repeaters, or have a trusted
group of people working on them. In still others, HRO isn't involved in
D-STAR at all. All depends on where you live, and that's just the U.S.
Again... this is an International list.
> The premise Sort of build the repeater systems and
> they will come. In reality the equipment grants only provide about 50% of
> the actual installation cost.
A great many systems don't have the luxury of discounted or free
repeater modules. Common sources of funding are Homeland Security
grants (which have their own requirements and strings attached, but I
can't speak for those, since we don't have one) in the U.S., and private
donations. In other countries, those programs may not have existed, but
Icom-specific programs have taken place in some European countries to
get the ball rolling. (In the UK, Icom even did something where they
bundled the repeaters and duplexers, or so I heard through the grapevine.)
The "kick off" stuff Icom did to get repeaters out into the world were
varied. They had pricing lowered and deals for groups that signed
contracts that they would buy a certain number of rigs, etc.
Other systems are club-owned and operated, like many analog FM systems,
to defray costs. And of course, there are always privately funded and
operated systems that have no members, and are owned by one or more
private individuals.
Everywhere is different. It's really a mish-mash, and there's no real
"common" way to do it. By hook or by crook, over 355 repeaters now have
Gateways and are on the Trust Server's list. And without numbers from
Icom, there's no way to tell how many "stand-alone" D-STAR systems have
been sold, or how many are on the air, other than taking a look at
repeater coordination data. Many coordinators will honor requests NOT
to publish private systems (even though they are coordinated), so those
won't show up anywhere.
So...
How many D-STAR systems? No one really knows, other than Icom and the
people who run them. We only know how many Gateway-equipped systems are
on the U.S. Trust Server, which is generically what this list is
about... but... there are Japanese hams here also, and their rather
extensive system of repeaters is handled very differently there. JARL
runs many of the repeaters and the infrastructure for the hams in Japan.
Privately owned/operated systems are more rare than here in the States.
> since power supplies, servers, feed lines,
> duplexers, and antennas are not included. So it takes quite a commitment to
> put in a complete stack with Gateway access ($15-20K if you funded the whole
> system).
This is accurate. Someone once published a good document with estimated
costs for a "full-stack". Many organizations simply can't afford to buy
four modules, a controller, and all associated RF hardware, lightning
protection, and all the other "goodies" required to put up a
high-quality repeater system. This is just as true (actually worse,
since you can get away with putting utter JUNK on the air) in analog FM
also.
> So sysops of the systems provided by HRO/ICOM should be willing to
> register valid licensed amateurs.
This may or may not be true. Registration for the overall network for
radio users seems best done at the local level. If there's a
Gateway-equipped D-STAR system in range, that system should be able to
handle all the local radio user registrations.
Where it gets "weird" is the DV-Dongle. Many users buy these who are
NOT in range of an RF-based system. There are Gateway operators who
will register Dongles from all over the world, but not all are
comfortable with this. The main reason: Once you register someone,
they have access to every Gateway-equipped transmitter in the world, and
can make any of them transmit. Should I register a German ham on our
system here in Colorado and give that Ham the "keys to the transmitters"
without even being able to speak German? I think not. I always refer
out-of-town hams back to the closest geographical system to them,
whenever possible.
> I know it's our local policy to refer
> users to someone in their local operating area for registration purposes.
And now you know why! (GRIN)
> You can only register on one Gateway system otherwise you will create
> problems.
You only need to register once, yes. Once you have, you're registered
from that system into the Trust Server, and there's no more registration
to be done.
And it should be pointed out again here, that NO REGISTRATION is
required to talk through a D-STAR repeater. Only through Gateways. A
D-STAR repeater will repeat any valid digital signal received, with the
proper repeater callsign in the RPT1 field.
> Another thing that perhaps will limit the number of jammers is every
> D-STAR radio transmits a call sign in DV mode each transmission. Thus even
> radios kerchunking the repeater are identified. Also just the initial cost
> of purchasing D-STAR capable radios may prevent some from indulging in such
> antics.
Anyone can set any callsign they want in any rig. It's not a deterrent
of any kind. I can be Barry, and you can be Nate, just by putting in
each other's callsigns. It's not a security measure, it's not a
deterrent, it's just a node identifier for the radio transmitting,
that's chosen by the operator of the rig. It can mean something, or it
can be false.
That second part is correct -- high cost does TEND to keep jammers away.
It's not worth it to most to buy a rig. But it's not going to stop a
determined jammer. Only DF gear can do that.
> I'm not on the technical committee but I believe the Registration
> Software currently available is the G2 (Second Generation) D-STAR Gateway
> System.
I detailed the software that can be used for control. You're correct,
Gateway software is separate from that, and has been upgraded since the
release of Gateway Version 2 ("G2") by local admins of each Gateway
following patching instructions from the U.S. Trust Server team. The
Trust Server team provides version level monitoring to show if systems
are outdated or need patches, to make sure all systems are on the latest
software for compatibility reasons. They do a great job of wrangling
the complexity out of all of this and keeping it simple for the admins.
> I also think you have to pass some form of knowledge proficiency
> test to be granted the software to set up a gateway.
Not anymore. This was only required in the G1 days. It was dropped at
the release of G2.
> You don't have to
> register if all your doing is working D-STAR on the local repeater. but to
> access other repeaters linked via the internet you will need to obtain the
> D-STAR Gateway system software.
True, as mentioned above.
Nate WY0X
