This discussion should be moved to another list, other than how it relates
to D-STAR.  However, since a list has not been nominated I will make a few
comments on the thread:

*Open vs. Closed Repeaters *(U.S. Regulations)

In some countries "closed" repeaters are illegal.  In the U.S. they are
legal, but in my opinion ill advised.


   1. A repeater operator has responsibility to take measures to prevent
   illegal operations on repeaters for which they hold "trustee" status.  This
   responsibility exists whether the repeater is open or closed.
   2. The use of CTCSS/Digital Codes, software, etc. does not determine if a
   repeater is open or closed, they are engineering practices.
   3. Repeaters are placed on frequencies that are available to
*any*licensed amateur
      - No amateur should intentionally and maliciously cause interference
      to an ongoing communication.
      - If there is no ongoing communication, operating on the input or
      output frequency of a repeater is not interference.
      - The use of CTCSS/Digital Codes, etc. is at the option of the amateur
      operating a transmitter on a frequency as long as they are legally
      identifying their station. So if the operator selects the proper
      CTCSS/Digital Code and it keys up the repeater, the operator has not
      violated regulations.
      - No amateur has exclusive rights to a frequency (even repeater
      operators), however, good operating practice and civility says
that you do
      not intentionally interfere with communications on a repeater.
The trustee
      can always shutdown the repeater if communications are coming through it
      that are not in line with either regulations or policy.
      - This being said, "closed" repeaters are only enforced by the social
      environment surrounding them, in other words, making those who
come on the
      repeater who are not part of the "closed" group feel unwelcome.
For most of
      us, that means, we avoid that repeater, for others, it is seen
as a personal
      affront and may lead to inappropriate behavior on the repeater's input
      and/or output frequencies.
   4. Repeater frequencies on popular bands are a scarce resource. Repeater
   coordination leadership believes that coordinators should not make value
   judgements.  This has merit in that the coordinators should not exhibit
   prejudice on the common basis; religion, race, political choice, etc.
   However, in almost every other management of a "public" resource, there has
   a been a doctrine of "highest and best use" -- the practical implication of
   the "no value judgement" is that a valuable resource is effectively tied up
   on a first come, first served basis.  This has lead to several undesireable
   side effects:
      - Entrenchment - a repeater may stay on frequency just because it has
      the coordination, even if it is rarely or never used, so new or
higher use
      of the frequency is thwarted.
      - Paper Repeaters - some coordinators are way too lenient on allowing
      a repeater pair to be coordinated and then allowing the party
coordinating
      the pair to delay implementation, sometimes for years or even decades.
      - In some areas almost all pairs are "closed" - 70cm in Southern
      California for example. Even going so far as to not publish who has the
      coordination or where the repeater is located, but rather simply
marking the
      pair as coordinated. ALL COORDINATION SHOULD BE IN PUBLIC SEARCHABLE
      DATABASES, no private lists, no fees to view, etc.  If repeaters
want their
      coordinated frequencies protected they should be required to
publish.  If a
      pair is coordinated but could be co-channeled with a proper
understanding of
      service area a prospective repeater operator should be able to
research this
      online.
   5. Defined Purpose of Amateur Radio (US)
   ยง97.1 Basis and purpose.

   The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur
   radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following
   principles:

   (a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to
   the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly
   with respect to providing emergency communications.

   (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to
   contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

   (c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules
   which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical
   phases of the art.

   (d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service
   of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

   (e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance
   international goodwill.
   - I see nothing in this as advocating for "private" systems. The
      fundamental purpose of Amateur Radio is to provide "service to
the public as
      voluntary noncommercial communication service". Closed repeaters
are not in
      the public interest, but rather in the interest of their owners.
      - Demand for payment to use, is, for all practical purposes,
      commercial use.  If you want a private repeater, get a
commercial frequency,
      play with encryption, have restrictions on who can use based on your own
      criteria, but leave Amateur Radio to its stated purpose.
      - Request for donations, either directly or through membership in a
      supporting organization is not commercial use.  If one uses a
system on any
      regular basis they should be willing to donate. (Visitors should
always be
      welcome.)
      - Evolving the repeater base to include new technologies and methods
      is part of the "advancement of the radio art" and "advancing
skills in both
      the communications and technical phases" - entrenchment is in direct
      opposition to this principle.  True "spectrum management" would
look at the
      value and utilization of current repeaters and find ways to include newer
      and higher purpose systems (eliminate unused and paper repeaters), giving
      preference to open repeaters to serve a wider community.
      - Anti-Social enforcement of a "closed repeater" contradicts the
      principle of  enhancing "goodwill" whether domestic or
International -- some
      repeaters' coverage cross international borders.
      - A repeater sponsor should look at it, and all of the expense, as
      their contribution to the hobby and the public good.  A regular repeater
      user should consider it a social obligation to contribute to
defraying those
      costs associated with the repeater.
      - If you can't afford a repeater don't put it up. If you don't want to
      share, go to a non-Amateur Radio service - your repeater is on a
frequency
      that "belongs" to all licensees.

Certainly my comments will fall on deaf ears of, if not upset, those
entrenched in the current "closed" repeater mindset, but perhaps some will
see the wisdom. We would probably be better served by fewer, well engineered
and operated repeaters, than having every pair tied up, many for private use
or owner glorification.

73 de K7VE - John


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