Embedded From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Daron Wilson Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 12:18 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: new to the group
-->Reliability - I don't think there is any data to present regarding the reliability of the all in one repeater in a box concept over a commercial analog repeater. The Icom 'repeater' is clearly two mobiles stuck in a box. However, can you keep it running and repair it if needed? You repair as any other radio. Just because you have a bunch of unused spares doesn't make a FM repeater any more reliable. And there are MANY commercial repeaters that are "two mobiles stuck in a box" -->Same as FM - sounds like you have swallowed the blue pill from Icom. Our 'terrain' includes very few locations that are line of sight to the site. Sound as if you might have a malfunctioning system, because as others have indicated, that isn't the general case for D-STAR. We've got a number of repeaters here in Georgia that are covering very similar to the high site FM repeaters that are collocated. -->Voice and slow speed data 'over the same links' - this one has me wondering. Assuming the gateway is down, what links are you referring to? If the gateway is down, I can talk to ALL of the local users, which is often the primary target for data communications anyway. So with a handheld or mobile and a computer, I can send voice and data. -->Yup.with my D7 and a laptop, I can carry on a voice conversation or send and receive email or download lists of data via packet. I don't tie up the net control discussion when I send and receive email. But you will need to have two infrastructures online. The voice repeater and the digipeater. I can do the same thing that the D7 can. BUT, if desired, I can do it on a single channel, with a single infrastructure. BUT, if Internet access IS available, then I can provide all of the above, as well as direct communications with remote locations such a State EOCs, FEMA EOCs, and other government organizations in DC such as the Red Cross. -->Yes, assuming all those agencies have Dstar (all of those agencies by default quite likely already have analog FM) Many of them do. And for those that don't, all I have to do is to get a DVDongle into one and I've got instant communications. And I'm never saying to rip out FM for D-STAR. D-STAR is another tool in the toolbag. So if I compare the common non-linked FM repeater to the commonly Internet connected D-STAR repeater, the D-STAR repeater at it's worst does a heck of a lot more, and at the best, just blows the functionality of a FM repeater away. -->Hmmm..you do get NOAA weather alerts over your D-Star repeater? We do on analog. You get site telemetry (battery voltage, VSWR, etc.) over your D-star? We do with analog. You have remote control of any of the site features like turning the power down, switching to the backup antenna, manually starting the generator, etc on your D-Star repeater? We do with analog. And guess what, with data on a separate network, I can send and receive email at the same time I'm listening to the emergency net without having to occupy their channel for data. Yup, Yup, Yup, Yup, Yup, all of that is easily doable for anyone that wants to do it. There are some systems that do, others that don't just as FM repeaters. Does you FM repeater identify with every transmission? No, just because it doesn't, doesn't make it less useful. Just because a specific D-STAR repeater doesn't have a capability doesn't make it worthless. And guess what, on my D-STAR stack and I can have 3 nets (with or without data) and send high-resolution pictures, and look at the current weather radar, and check out our ARES database and send and receive email and Instant Message and a bunch more stuff. With the high-speed IP connection of the ID-1, I've got so much more capability that will ever exist on a FM or 12/24/96 packet network. -->Awesome. PLEASE explain to me how you have been able to make the gateway work via cellular modem and wifi. Having only done one installation and worked hard to get the Icom required addressing scheme implemented and having to be very close to the backbone to keep the jitter down enough to provide reliable communications I would be in awe if you have managed to make it actually work as simply as you make it sound. You just roll in, connect to a wifi hot spot, and you are authenticated with the trust server and the gateway just hums along? Please Share! It's a piece of cake, a Sprint modem is the best right now because it doesn't NAT the address. There are hundreds of people on this list that have seen the KJ4BDF repeater in action. It has been online at Dayton, Huntsville, and a number of Georgia Hamfests and events. The WD4HRO repeater is also capable of operating mobile. It was at the Atlanta hamfest a few weeks ago. In the past I've operated off of hotspots in hotels, but because of some security concerns, that's been temporarily discontinued. I'm hoping that the DPLUS software will enable the functionality in the future. But even without it, I can still do it because I just VPN into another network with a public IP and I'm online. -->I'm not saying D-star isn't novel and fun. I'm saying that there are many pitfalls in implementing it, servicing it, fixing it and actually doing what the brochures lead you to believe it does. I would MUCH rather have a voice radio so I can monitor a couple of nets during the emergency and a radio/TNC to send data WHEN I want to WHERE I want (i.e. winlink) rather than be trapped on the Dstar 'network' with no onramp to the email system (except what Dan has done with Drats which is awesome!). My tool box includes both, todate the analog side get's 99% of the usage because it meets the need even if the internet backbone is down. "pitfalls in implementing" Hmmm, let me think. Have I heard that somewhere before? I think so, I believe those were some of the same types of statements that was used when SSB started, when FM started, essentially when any technology started. The first FM repeaters were a pain to install until someone figured out duplexors. Before that you had to worry about antenna isolation. Oh, as to being stuck in the D-STAR system, well you are indeed entitled to your own opinion, but that's definitely not mine. When "I'm stuck" in D-STAR, I can do my email over my ID-1. I'm not limited to Winlink, I can do that as well as Hotmail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. I can easily send and receive 2MB high resolution pictures. I can fire up Instant Messenger client and talk to millions of people. Without my ID-1, I can flip over to the Southeastern Weather Net where we have over 25 repeaters connecting weekly with systems from Texas to North Carolina and every state in-between. And most importantly, I can switch to FM and hookup a TNC if I desire. _,___ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
