on 5/8/01 5:49 pm, chuck goolsbee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> At 1:33 AM -0700 8/5/01, Mark W Harpster wrote:
>> This 2300 is real hard to start. 44Mb/700Mb 8.6 with SD. I will get any
>> number of static like clicks using reset button, power switch, or
>> control-command-power. Occasional chime with no screen at all (not a grey
>> screen- no screen lighting.) When I get a chime and a screen it will
>> start and run. After about 10 minutes it will freeze. If I select
>> restart, even while it is running normally, it will shut down and stay
>> shut down- except for the hard drive. It will continue spinning. Disk
>> Warrior has done it's thing. I haven't succeeded in getting any hard
>> drive utilities to work. In SCSI dock mode it froze my 2400 when running
>> Norton. I think it is a FWB disk. I also haven't re-installed either. And
>> I haven't done any extension work. I think CC would lose it's way, might
>> take 3 days to get enough start-ups to analyze an extension conflict. I
>> did put in another PRAM battery (Batteries plus- a chain, welded the
>> contacts, while I waited) but that was no help except that the mini green
>> light no longer showed GLOD.
>>
>> Anyone want to direct my efforts? Hardware problem with the power
>> manager? With the SCSI system? Software? (Extension issue or OS corrupt)
>>> HDD?
>
> At 7:31 -0700 8/5/01, Paul Nelson wrote:
>> Try using Norton via an external hard drive or CD-ROM. In SCSI
>> disk mode, you are trying to run Norton on a hard drive WITHIN the system
>> you are running it from, AFAIK.
>> Paul
>
>
> OK, not to pick on Mark & Paul in particular but things to keep in
> mind about computers, their boot sequences, and troubleshooting
> problems related to all the above:
>
> All computers have some read-only media that provides the
> intelligence required to take the cue from a power-up event and do
> the following: self-test the basic systems (power, memory, I/O
> subsystems), powerup the [usually] spinning media that holds the
> operating system, and bootstrap the OS into memory...
>
> *Only then* does the hard disk become a source of any startup troubles.
>
> On a PC this built-in stuff is called BIOS. On a modern (PCI bus) Mac
> it is called OpenFirmware... previously it was all done from the Mac
> ROMs.
>
> Running a disk utility on a machine in the above condition is like
> pouring gasoline into the tank of a car with a broken driveshaft.
>
> The problem is likely that one of the major subsystems has failed (or
> is failing), so the drive is not even able to enter the picture.
>
> ...and as for disk utilities, as they relate to troubleshooting, I'm
> going to repeat myself... which given the wonders of copy/paste, it
> very easy to do. Here was my take on it two years ago...
>
> At 20:44 -0800 2/22/99, chuck goolsbee wrote:
>> Do not read if you can't tolerate a rant...
>>
>>
>> <rant mode on>
>> I've gotten to the point where I have taken Norton's away from my staff,
>> and I'd like to erase it from every drive on the planet. Why? It seems to
>> have replaced any analytical abilities or independent thought that
>> macintosh techs must have in order to do their jobs. It has become the
>> classic "hammer" in the well worn phrase of "If the only tool you have is a
>> hammer, you see every problem as a nail." I wish I had $5 for every time I
>> heard "I ran Norton on it..." when referring to troubleshooting a
>> Mac-related problem... I'd be able to retire comfortably by now.
>>
>> I would much rather see people using their heads and following logical
>> troubleshooting steps instead of just pulling the hammer out of the
>> toolchest and giving every problem a good "whack!" - then declaring victory
>> or defeat based on what happens after that.
>>
>> Norton Disk Doctor is a powerful tool, but it really does very little other
>> than postpone the inevitable or do a half-assed job of recovering deleted
>> files. A FAR BETTER way of dealing with *disk-specific* problems is to have
>> a well-oiled and functioning backup system and the willingness to reformat
>> and reinstall. Very few problems that have Norton thrown at them have
>> anything to do with disk problems though, and that is my primary objection.
>>
>> Get Retrospect. Formulate a good backup plan that covers your data that
>> changes day to day. Try to build client mac installs that minimize the need
>> to do desktop backups of entire drives. Use Apple's (free) Disk First Aid
>> as a diagnosis and repair tool. My philosophy about disk problems is: if
>> DFA (Mac) or FSCK (UNIX) doesn't fix it then reformat and reinstall (my
>> life is too short to hassle with dos/windows). Keep one copy of NDD for
>> those "undelete" issues that can not be covered by your backup plan, (but
>> do not train users to expect miracles!) NDD creates as many problems as it
>> "fixes" if used improperly, as it often is, so limit it to only what it
>> really is designed for. Spend some time to learn logical troubleshooting.
>> Kurt Vandersluis's book "Troubleshooting Macintosh Networks" is a great
>> place to start, if only for the exceptional OSI-model descriptions and how
>> to troubleshoot by the layers. Last I knew the whole (well, most of the)
>> book was online at:
>> http://www.zocalo.net/tng/tablecon.html
>> or
>> ftp://ftp.zocalo.net/pub/tng/TS_Mac_Nets.sit.bin
>>
>> <rant mode off>
>>
>> -chuck goolsbee, President Emeritus of the Peter Norton Non-Fan UnClub
>> *Never has - and never will - "run Norton" on my 2400*
>
> --chuck goolsbee
> geek wrangler, digital.forest inc, bothell, wa <http://www.forest.net>
> list mom, mac-mgrs mailing list... <http://www.mac-mgrs.org>
>
>
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>
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HI
I had aproblem similar to that on one of the duos i have only mine would
chime then blank and then on the third attempt it would always start so i
lifted the keyboard and reseated all the connections and finaly took out the
ram chip and give the pins a sharpe blast of air (blew on them ) then
reseated the ram and keyboard and it starts fine and hasdone for the last
six months.
As for some of the views on norton my personal opinion is it is great for pc
but not Macs.
vic
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A listserv for users and fans of Mac subportables.
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Be sure to visit Mac2400! <http://www.sineware.com/mac2400>
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Need help from a real person? Try. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
----------
Dr. Bott | 10/100 Ethernet for your 2400 is finally here!
MPC-100 | <http://www.drbott.com/prod/mpc100.html>
NineWire | If they are cool enough to host this list...
Digital Solutions | ...you should check them out! http://www.NineWire.com/
Midwest Mac Parts ][ <http://www.midwestmac.com>
After-market parts for Macs. ][ 888-356-1104 ][
MacResQ Specials: LaCie SCSI CDR From $99! PowerBook 3400/200 Only $879!
Norton AntiVirus 6 Only $19! We Stock PARTS! <http://www.macresq.com>
