Rachel Walmsley wrote:
> Isabeau wrote:
>> The backdate option evolved, for various reasons that I
>> won't get into, as a "yes I know this entry is being posted out of
>> order" flag, because otherwise LJ complains that you're posting out of
>> order.
>
> The backdate option is an asolute mess, and personally I'd be as happy
> as Larry if we could just get rid of the damn thing. The main problem I
> have with it is that it combines two entirely distinct functions ("don't
> show on aggregate views" and "date out of order") and doesn't allow them
> to be handled separately.
<snip>
Oh, I agree 1000% that the backdate/DOOO option sucks and that the two
functions should be separated.
For those that are interested in LJ!history: (everyone else can skip
the next paragraph)
Originally, the backdate option was designed for things like manuall
"importing" entries from another forum, where the journal as a whole is
written in chronological order but you're adding in entries from the
past, and don't want to flood your friends' Friends pages. (...IIRC
originally, back in the dinosaur era, backdated entries didn't show up
in the *calendar* either. but that got changed fairly quickly.) The
problem came when people were posting out of order *accidentally*, not
deliberately: either because their computer was confused (and thus they
were posting in, say, 2001 instead of 2003), or because their computer
*had* been confused (and thus they had been posting in 2012 for a while
and now were back in the correct year). The entries, which weren't
flagged as backdated, showed up fine on friends pages, but didn't show
up on their main journal page (because it was sorted by the given date,
which was wonky). That's why the "You're posting at $earliertime when
you have entries at $latertime; either change the error message or
backdate the entry" thing was implemented, as a force-option. It wasn't
implemented very *well*, because a lot of people didn't understand the
error message, and also led to epidemics of "my posts aren't appearing
on anyone's friends page!" from people who understood the message but
didn't understand the ramifications of backdating. (And the name got
changed to Date Out Of Order, to keep away the cognitive dissonance of
backdating a future-dated entry, but I still call it backdating out of
long long habit.)
Or, to sum up the above teal deer: the backdate function was created
within a specific, rigid conception of how LJs would be used, and got a
couple of bandaids thrown on the gaping wounds that resulted from the
way LJs actually got used, and sucks like a black hole and should be
taken out and shot. Though how one shoots a black hole, I don't know...
ahem.
So. I definitely firmly believe that there should be a "do not appear
on friends page" option that is *completely separate* from the date option.
However, the date issue is another can of worms altogether. IMO:
1) the error message needs to be as clear as possible, about what is
happening *and* about the effects. (Or maybe there should be a "why?"
link that pops up a separate window that explains things in further
detail.) Admittedly, the current version on LJ is a lot better than
other versions I've seen, but it still doesn't say that (for example)
DOOO-flagged entries don't appear on friends pages.
2) entries that don't appear on friends pages should possibly be marked
as such to the owner -- possibly an additional icon, like the security
icons, that displays with it.
3) optionally, it would be awesome if journals had the option of
choosing whether to sort entries server-time (like communities) or
date-time. ...actually, it would be awesome if communities had this
option too, now that I think about it.
4) regardless, the "yes I do know this is out of order, post the entry
anyway" option should not result in the entry not appearing on friends
pages (unless that option has also been selected).
5) if possible, it would be nice to have some way of untangling
intentional DOOO entries from unintentional ones, to allow deliberate
misdating but minimize "ack my entry disappeared". but I don't know how
to do that
6) I suspect I am repeating myself. Also, babbling.
-Isabeau
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