On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 6:00 PM, pancake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 17:28 +0200, Kai Großjohann wrote: > > I don't understand why IDEs are considered so bad. > > > > IDEs make it easy to shoot yourself in the foot (by clicking with the > > mouse, no less). But all C programmers know that it works to just avoid > > shooting yourself in the foot. Also, there may be bad IDEs. > > > > I use Eclipse for Java programming, with viPlugin. > > im some bad times of my life i have been using eclipse with a home-made > crack for viplugin. I can look for it if you want.
if you're a hardcore vi user you might want to take a look at http://eclim.sf.net :-) I've been using Vim for many years and after using some major modes in Emacs I'm using Emacs for most coding jobs (of course with a custom dotemacs) these days. Especially stuff like distel (Erlang mode) or the Haskell mode which allows you to use Unicode symbols/characters for stuff like lambda instead of '\' is great :D > BTW, I never understood why viplugin is proprietary, paysoft and full of > bugs. Its just anoying to have to pay for that so bad implementation. > > I have used javascript implementations for replacing textareas in webs > emulating vi with more features than viplugin and for free. > > > Regarding lock-in: Our build infrastructure is based on make, and I > > integrated Eclipse and the build infrastructure. This means all > > projects can be built using make. There is no lock-in. (In fact, some > > team members prefer Emacs, and some use vi. We all collaborate on the > > same projects.) > > Yeah, eclipse is a very standard tool. Using ANT is far more better than > using make. IMHO make is also a weird tool that should be replaced > anytime. Current GNU implementation is full of unnecessary stuff and it > highly depends on the shell so, it breaks portability. > > > Regarding power of the editor: With viPlugin, I get enough basic editor > > functionality so that I do not feel restrained. Yet, the Eclipse Java > > editor knows Java syntax and offers a much higher level of source code > > editing. Specifically, we have refactoring and quickfix support, and > > code completion and navigation. > > I miss lot of functionalities. And the bugs on it makes sometimes loss > time trying to fail into insert mode. > > > Quickfix means that the editor recognizes common compilation problems > > and offers corrections. I use that to speed up typing: I say String x = > > someObject.someMethod(someArg);, then wait for the editor to flag the > > compilation error, then let it correct the type of x. This means that I > > don't have to remember the exact type that someMethod returns, and also > > I get the import statement for free. > > My guidelines are mostly based on C, I know that coding for > > btw you can do all the same stuff inside vim with code autocompletion > (there is an elcipse backend for vim), syntax highlighting, automatic > indentation, etc.. > > I wrote some shellscript to replace all these features from the > commandline to get list of methods, find strings on source files, > enable/disable debug printfs, etc.. Most of these features are easy to > implement in the shell and give you more control on the source than > using the common user interfaces for code autocompletion and so. > > But I understand that maybe I'm a big freak on this. I'm just offering > my POV over these topics. not trying to change the mind of anybody or > anything else :) > > > --pancake >
