First off, great presentation Don! I thought it gave a great perspective of what these "icebreaker" DXpeditions and others to exotic places cost. Someone has to pay for them. The operators on some DXpeditions often bear a great deal of the cost themselves. I know a few people who have gotten involved in a DXpedition without knowing what it would cost them personally. They put forth an amount of money that hurt them personally financially, hoping they could get at least some of it back. Some didn't - they have not been on a DXpedition since. Live and learn, I guess. And our loss when a fine operator can't or won't go on another DXpedition.
I know some of the people who were on the VP8ORK DXpedition. Some of the fees they had to pay were downright weird - and sounded exorbitant to me. But what are you going to do? Refuse to pay a fee to get your equipment out of storage? You would be in a bad position thousands of miles from home, trying to meet an expedition timetable and unable to speak the language of the country, trying to negotiate with those people. If you want the DXpedition, if you want it there for you to work, it seems only right to me that you voluntarily contribute what you can. Not that it has to be $5 per QSO, but every little bit helps. None of the DXpeditions I wished to have confirmed recently have demanded any fees for QSL'ing. But I do voluntarily send them something. I hope it helps just a little. If enough people do that, it increases the chance that they will go on another DXpedition to a rare place in a few years. And I agree - if the DXpedition so chooses to send out confirmation to contributors first, that is their choice and it doesn't mean that non-contributors are not going to get their confirmation. If you had to wait for 20 years for an entity to be put on the air, what's a couple extra months waiting for the confirmation? 73, Zack W9SZ On 5/20/12, Don Greenbaum <d...@aurumtel.com> wrote: > > Who is demanding any fees for a QSL? > > Name one DXpedition that refuses to answer bureau cards? Or a major > DXPedition that doesn't post their logs to LOTW (most within 6 months). > Most foundations require that in return for funding. > > Just because someone who donates $5 gets his card first does not translate > into extortion for those who opt out of supporting dxpeditions and wait for > the slow method. > > 73 > > Don > N1DG > > At 06:45 PM 5/20/2012, Don wrote: >> >>Go or don't go. But demanding a fee for a qsl is still extortion in the >> true sense of the term >> >>Sent from my iPod >> >>On May 20, 2012, at 6:31 PM, "Ron Notarius W3WN" <wn3...@verizon.net> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Lou, >>> >>> Once again, context is important. >>> >>> Don's presentation was not talking about the casual DXpedition that might >>> cost one or two people a few thousand. Yes, this was mentioned, but it >>> was not the main focus. >>> >>> And within THAT context only, if I can't afford to go on a vacation to >>> the Caribbean that happens to include a radio op for $5K, I'm not going >>> to go either. If I do go, I'm not going to expect to recoup my vacation >>> costs from those who worked me, either. >>> >>> But -- that's not what the main focus here is. >>> >>> You're not going to Heard Island, or Bouvet, or Navassa, or Baker & >>> Howland, etc., for $5000 either. Between logistics, licensing, boat >>> chargers, food & fuel, you're talking in the neighborhood (today) of >>> US$500,000. >>> >>> Don's plea, as I recall (and Don, please correct me if I'm wrong) was >>> that the DX community as a whole, world-wide, find a way to continue to >>> fund these trips. Or they will stop, and the rarest of the rare will be >>> off the air for decades to come. >>> >>> The cost-per-QSO breakdown simply gives you, or should give you, an >>> appreciation for what was involved. It was not meant (at least as I >>> heard it) as a suggestion that this should be a mandatory minimum amount >>> that you should include along with your QSL request. >>> >>> Don also had a comment that more should join their local DX associations, >>> societies, foundations, etc., in order to strengthen those organizations, >>> and permit THEM to continue to help fund future super-rare operations. >>> Let's not let that get lost in the discussion either. >>> >>> The bottom line is that we as a community simply can't expect others to >>> go to these places that we seek to contact purely for the thrill of a >>> pileup. Because when the costs to go far outstrip the means of the >>> operating team, they won't be able to go whether they want the thrill or >>> not. >>> >>> 73 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Mecseri >>> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 4:11 PM >>> To: li...@w2irt.net >>> Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org >>> Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] DX-PEDITIONS FOR US POOR FOLKS? >>> >>> >>> -pjd is making a valid point, but......... >>> >>> On the other side of the coin, how can you put a price on the thrill of >>> being on the receiving end of a huge pileup for a week or two???????. >>> If it cost me $5,000 to go to a Dx Expedition, I would not compute my >>> cost per contact. If I would have to, I should not be going...... >>> >>> Just my 2cents worth >>> >>> Lou KE1F >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/20/2012 3:47 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote: >>>> >>>> Ryan hit the nail on the head, gents. Please download and analyze Don's >>>> PowerPoint presentation when it becomes available on the site. There are >>>> two facts that become blatantly obvious. One, the cost-per-QSO incurred >>>> by the DXpeditions to bring you that rare on is very high. In some >>>> cases, the cost they bear to bring you that new one is over $5.00 USD >>>> PER CONTACT. In other less-difficult-to-get-to places it's in the $3 >>>> range. So those who toss $2 or an IRC into the envelope and nothing more >>>> are putting more of the burden on your fellow hams. This is not >>>> sustainable as prices to put these operations on increase. I can see it >>>> if you work a guy once or twice, request a bureau card or wait out the >>>> LoTW hit or toss a couple of bucks into an envelope. It's not right if >>>> you picked up 20 greenies on Clublog. Sorry. They're not telling you >>>> that you have to *pay* $5 or $3 per Q, but that's what THEY HAVE SPENT >>>> to bring you the chance. >>>> >>>> The second issue is that certain parts of the world are more readily >>>> willing to lend financial support through QSL-request donations than >>>> other parts of the world. I didn't take notes during Don's presentation >>>> but I'm pretty sure the European donation percentage was infinitesimally >>>> small as compared to the NA donation base (again, as averaged over >>>> 20-odd years by major DXpeditions). Less-than-1% if memory serves--Don, >>>> if I'm wrong, please feel free to beat me about the head with a large >>>> abacus. >>>> >>>> Regardless of the exact percentages, it's irresponsible and outright >>>> selfish to sit there and work these big-league ops and not toss >>>> something into the hat not as a way to say thank you (which is a great >>>> gesture in and of itself) but as a way to ensure they'll be able to >>>> commit to going to that one place you need that'll put you over the top >>>> and into the Honor Roll or to HR#1, maybe. >>>> >>>> If you're so poor that you can't afford $10 or $20 a couple of times a >>>> year, when you've bagged a biggie across a bunch of bands and modes, >>>> then there's something wrong and I definitely think you should >>>> reconsider your choice of hobby, or your desire to be a DXer. >>>> >>>> Yeah, there are DXpeditions that I work once or twice and I'll send an >>>> SASE or an IRC or even request a bureau card for. These are nominally >>>> the ones I worked just 'cuz they were there and I thought "gee, it's >>>> been a couple of years since I worked<entity> on<band>." But if it's >>>> something I spend 2 weeks chasing up and down the spectrum, damned >>>> straight I'll toss at least $10-25 into the hat, maybe more if money's >>>> not as big an issue as it is now. >>>> >>>> >>>> - pjd >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Jairam >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't begrudge a DXpedition for asking for a few $ or € to covver >>>> their costs. It's your choice to work them. It may not fit someone's >>>> definition of "ham spirit" but I also understand that without the >>>> donations, many rare entities wouldn't be activated. It's just how it >>>> is. >>>> >>>> Some hams spend more than just money - they risk life and limb, just so >>>> you can get a QSO in the log. >>>> >>>> Ryan, N2RJ >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org -----------------------------------------------------------
