I too believe that styling should be at the widget level (but this is no surprise given who I am).
RE: Qt It seems to me that a Qt implementation could use native CSS styling to support the features you mention. The computeSize() API would pick up these attributes (provided it is implemented natively). All of the CSS and Declarative UI discussions I have seen so far have ignored native styling, probably because the only platforms of SWT that could/do support it are RAP, Flex and Dojo. My current thinking is that the CSS styling in e4 will not be native (ie. it's implemenation will be in Java and portable). Kevin? Gorkem Ercan <[email protected]> Sent by: [email protected] 01/28/2009 08:33 AM Please respond to E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> To E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> cc Subject Re: [e4-dev] Declarative UI in E4 IMHO the super minor example is not that minor. It is a major use case that CSS can be used in coord with layout managers to layout the UI. I think I have voiced these before in this list but here it goes again, I am in favor of supporting for CSS properties in SWT widget level. I think we need Control level awareness of the CSS properties. For instance in this case computeSize implementations of the Controls could add the margin values to the preferred sizes so that it would work with the layout managers. Other than margins there is also the other size related CSS properties min-width, min-height, height, width... those also needs to be addressed in computeSize implementations. Since Qt's support for stylesheets is mentioned, one of the elements in Qt CSS support is, it is possible to style sub-elements in a Control (for instance the down arrow on a CheckBox). Again that level of control is not possible without SWT level support for CSS styling. -- Gorkem 2009/1/28 Kevin McGuire <[email protected]>: > > My impression was that XWT and Hallvard's model were modelling at two > different levels. At least, that's the interesting part to me (and less so, > it's representation as an EMF model or XML). I admit I've not looked > closely at either due to lack of time (sigh), but at a broad level, I > believe that Yves approach maps more closely to the widgets but is not a > direct representation of them (close but not 1:1), while as Hallvard's is a > more abstract approach which could facilitate higher level UI expressions, > eventually generated down to widgets (even less 1:1). > > I'm not sure I've characterized them accurately and if not apologies. > > I think both approaches are interested and valid. A close mapping to the > widget structure allows for GUI builders, serialization/deserialization, > testers, etc. A more abstract model might allow you raise the level of > expression of the UI to more functional needs ("I need a list of > directories" vs. "I need a list widget whose content provider gives me > directories"). > > As a super-minor example, in CSS you can set margins. Our SWT widgets don't > have equivalent API for margins. The way to implement it in SWT is with a > Composite and layout. But my declarative UI likely won't have that > composite. Ideally the widget generation would be in cohoots with CSS and > gen the right composites with layout values. So not 1:1. > > Kevin > > > > David Orme <[email protected]> > Sent by: [email protected] > > 01/27/2009 03:03 PM > > Please respond to > E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> > To > E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]>, [email protected] > cc > Subject > [e4-dev] Declarative UI in E4 > > > > > Two things, by way of moving the discussion forward while the IP machine > grinds along: > > (The impatient or overworked can read just the boldfaced text and get the > gist of what I'm saying. ;-) > > > Thing #1:) > > My understanding is that our status is that Hallvard's code is making its > way through the IP Review process and onto the E4 server. > > In the meantime, I had an idea that might unify the two current proposals. > > (If I mis-characterize any of this, please correct me, but here is my > understanding of our current state:) > > 1) Hallvard's proposal is an XML layer on top of an EMF model that is > connected to the UI. > > 2) Yyves's proposal is to map XAML 1:1 to the SWT API. He calls the > resulting API XWT. > > Here's what I was wondering: Yyves, would it be possible/desirable to make > XWT map 1:1 to Hallvard's EMF model rather than straight to SWT? This seems > like it might be a sensible approach to unifying both proposals. > > If the answer is "yes", I'd very much like to play with that and see what > the resulting code looks/feels like. > > > Thing #2:) > > I've been thinking about the ways we have discussed for abstracting and > simplifying UI creation. So far, we have only focused on XML > representation, but I recalled that Andy Maleh created (and proposed) > Glimmer, a JRuby-based UI DSL project. And I've been interested in > translating Glimmer's ideas into Scala. > > (I noticed that Boris invited Andy to participate over here, and > regrettably, he has not materialized yet. Since I know Andy personally, > I'll reach out to him and invite him to join the conversation.) > > In any case, I want to make sure that whatever we do does not preclude > Glimmer-like things in alternate JVM languages, whether JRuby, Scala, > JavaScript, etc. > > In the abstract, it seems like it ought to be possible to map Glimmer(.JRuby > | .Scala) to EMF just like Hallvard maps XML to EMF. > > Which brings me to my > > > Conclusion:) > > Hallvard: Any ETA on when we will get to see your code at Eclipse.org? > > I'd really like to get my hands on both of these proposals and play with > them. :-) > > > Best regards, > > Dave Orme > > PS: Andy: I've CC'd you on this mailing list message. If you're interested, > please add yourself to the list so you can take part in the ongoing > conversation. You know you're welcome here. ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > e4-dev mailing list > [email protected] > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > e4-dev mailing list > [email protected] > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev > > _______________________________________________ e4-dev mailing list [email protected] https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
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