> . So, Steve, you are the master of widgetry; There might be hack involving WM_NCPAINT on win32 but you still need fields for each attribute and this increases the Java memory used for each widget.
Mike Wilson/Ottawa/i...@ibmca Sent by: [email protected] 02/03/2009 09:36 AM Please respond to E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> To E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> cc Subject Re: [e4-dev] Declarative UI in E4 Kevin's point 4) is that we *do* want to support the ability to add space around things. It's not something we can give up on, just because it's non-trivial to implement with the current SWT API. So how do we do this? Steve's, first take at a "random implementation thought" fails for the reasons we have discussed. So, Steve, you are the master of widgetry; how do we get this capability *without* paying the double-the-os-resources penalty? Personally, I'd like whatever the solution is to be to provided directly by SWT, so that on platforms like WPF where (I'm guessing) it's directly supported, we could use the native implementation. McQ. Kevin McGuire---29/01/2009 10:25:08--->Perhaps it is best if CSS engine handles all that and > SWT Widgets handles the applying of the act From: Kevin McGuire/Ottawa/i...@ibmca To: E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> Cc: E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]>, [email protected] Date: 29/01/2009 10:25 Subject: Re: [e4-dev] Declarative UI in E4 >Perhaps it is best if CSS engine handles all that and > SWT Widgets handles the applying of the actual style. That's how I imagined it would work. We don't need SWT to parse styles (I can do that part), we just need API access to realize the styling on screen (I can't do that part). That way too, you can do something other than CSS as a format/parser (e.g. XAML). At a very high level, to me the main issues are: 1) We need to modernize the look of Eclipse, and to do so we need: a) externalized styling b) ensure the workbench allows things to be styled (presently some hard coded decisions, we're working on that) c) take advantage of advanced styling on those platforms which support it. 2) Not all platforms support the same set of styling capabilities. SWT has done a fantastic job in the past of providing parity behaviour across multiple OS', but sometimes at the cost of it being lowest common denominator. For styling, I think things can be looser since we're not talking behavioural compatibility: an app can look different across OS' provided it looks good on all, the layout works correctly, etc. So we need a best effort strategy with graceful fallback under the control of the application, for those willing to pay the price. To do so, we need SWT to provide access to those advanced styling capabilities, and report somehow when they are unavailable. 3) I don't want to abandon native widgets in our search for higher gloss. That is, I don't want to custom draw every widget say to get CSS3 borders. Personally, I'd forgo padding if necessary. However, I'd like to understand better what styling capabilities are available to us on various platforms and exercise those better. 4) We need to add space around the widgets, it's actually extremely important from a styling point of view. We should be able to do so declaratively, ideally from CSS. At present we cannot rely on the existance of a parent composite with the right layout manager to enact that spacing. I'm not sure how we solve this if SWT doesn't support it and without doing something horrible like wrapping every widget in a composite, since all that does is move the OS resource cost issue. Kevin [email protected] wrote on 01/29/2009 07:49:46 AM: > Do you mean a list of CSS properties that needs to be supported by the > SWT (and eSWT) widgets? > > I guess we are talking about a Widget#setStyle( String styleString ) > API now. Do we want a similiar API function on Display? That would > make SWT implementations to handle all the cascade rules and the CSS > selectors etc. Perhaps it is best if CSS engine handles all that and > SWT Widgets handles the applying of the actual style. > -- > Gorkem > > > 2009/1/28 Steve Northover <[email protected]>: > > > > Then there is a mapping for some attributes and not others. We need the list > > and then decide which ones might be implemented (and the utility of > > implementing them). > > > > Random implementation thoughts: > > > > To implement margins (and other attributes) for every widget would increase > > the memory usage on platforms where these attributes are not supported > > natively (ie. everywhere except Dojo, Flex). We could add one field that > > contained a pointer to the memory for all the attributes but experience has > > shown that this field always gets set and even more memory is used. I could > > imagine an implementation of the margin code where there were multiple > > operating system handles for each native widget and the real native widget > > (ie. the table or whatever) was offset. This would effectively double the > > operating system resource usage for every widget in Eclipse, even when no > > margins etc. were set. Doesn't sound good to me. > > > > > > > > Kevin McGuire/Ottawa/i...@ibmca > > Sent by: [email protected] > > > > 01/28/2009 03:07 PM > > > > Please respond to > > E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> > > To > > E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> > > cc > > Subject > > Re: [e4-dev] Declarative UI in E4 > > > > > > > > > > > >> Kevin, does the CSS code you are playing with now support things like > >> "font-weight"? > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > Steve Northover/Ottawa/i...@ibmca > > Sent by: [email protected] > > > > 01/28/2009 02:24 PM > > > > Please respond to > > E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> > > > > To > > E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> > > cc > > Subject > > Re: [e4-dev] Declarative UI in E4 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You bring up a point that has been danced around for a while (sorry if it > > was discussed and I missed it). It's fine to accept and parse CSS formats > > but what are the valid attributes that we set, SWT API only? In the code > > you typed, if the platform was Dojo, then the CSS you provided is native and > > could just be applied to the widget. Not so on win32 or even Flexwhere the > > CSS attributes are non-standard too. > > > > Kevin, does the CSS code you are playing with now support things like > > "font-weight"? > > > > Tom Schindl <[email protected]> > > Sent by: [email protected] > > > > 01/28/2009 02:03 PM > > > > Please respond to > > E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> > > > > To > > E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected]> > > cc > > Subject > > Re: [e4-dev] Declarative UI in E4 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > Do you think SWT could implement interpretation of CSS-Informations for > > us (I don't speak about the much more heavy weight parsing and CSS-Rules)? > > > > There are things we can't solve without an underlying support from SWT. > > One such example is padding on the Text-Widget because naturally > > Component-nesting (which can be used to implement margins) is not possible. > > > > If I could dream. I'd like SWT to provide an API like Widget#setStyle() > > which allows me to pass in CSS-String like this: > > > > Text widget = new Text(parent,SWT.BORDER); > > widget.setStyle("margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 10px; padding-left: 10px; > > font-weight: bold;"); > > > > Do you have any idea how we could implement padding with the current > > SWT-API? > > > > Tom > > > > Steve Northover schrieb: > >> > >> I too believe that styling should be at the widget level (but this is no > >> surprise given who I am). > >> > >> RE: Qt > >> It seems to me that a Qt implementation could use native CSS styling to > >> support the features you mention. The computeSize() API would pick up > >> these attributes (provided it is implemented natively). All of the CSS > >> and Declarative UI discussions I have seen so far have ignored native > >> styling, probably because the only platforms of SWT that could/do > >> support it are RAP, Flex and Dojo. My current thinking is that the CSS > >> styling in e4 will not be native (ie. it's implemenation will be in Java > >> and portable). Kevin? > > _______________________________________________ > > e4-dev mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev > > _______________________________________________ > > e4-dev mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev > > _______________________________________________ > > e4-dev mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > e4-dev mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev > > > > > _______________________________________________ > e4-dev mailing list > [email protected] > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev _______________________________________________ e4-dev mailing list [email protected] https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev _______________________________________________ e4-dev mailing list [email protected] https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
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