I would just like to agree with Daryl and also point out that I have only been using Linux for just 1 year now and my first server was a Ubuntu server. I soon realised this was a mistake and now use Debian or Centos as my preferred distro's. Using Ubuntu I was always having issues of one sort or another and in the end I realised that this was a specific result of using Ubuntu and that most if not all the issues I had were fixed once I turned to Debian.
UBUNTU IS PRIMARILY A DESKTOP OS NOT A SERVER OS. I would never again use Ubuntu as a server, It just doesn't work. I learnt my lesson the hard way and won't allow myself to be burnt again. Moving to Ubuntu is a disaster in the making and Ebox will Die under the flood of people that will claim it not to work because a Ubuntu update broke something in the system or the Noobs just couldn't figure it out. Almost all the new stuff available in Ubuntu (mostly Desktop stuff) filters back to Debian once it has been stabilized so why compromise Ebox with stuff that is almost guaranteed to break Ebox and create a disaster for all concerned. Just plain stupid if you ask me It's your Choice but don't say you weren't warned. You're in for a bumpy ride if you go ahead with this crazy crazy idea. Have Fun and a merry Xmas to all Steve -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 4:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Ebox-user Digest, Vol 20, Issue 20 Send Ebox-user mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.warp.es/mailman/listinfo/ebox-user or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ebox-user digest..." Today's Topics: 1. how to install a webmail (Javier Uruen Val) 2. Auto Response: from [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 3. Why is ebox moving from debian to ubuntu? (Daryl Caudill) 4. Re: Why is ebox moving from debian to ubuntu? (Andrew Latham) 5. Re: Why is ebox moving from debian to ubuntu? (Rudy Godoy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:07:36 +0100 From: Javier Uruen Val <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Ebox-user] how to install a webmail To: eBox users <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi there, I've just written a quick document[0] to install a webmail on your eBox machine. Any suggestions, improvements or rewrites with screenshots are very welcomed. [0] http://trac.ebox-platform.com/wiki/Document/HowTo/InstallWebmail ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:07:19 +0200 (SAST) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Ebox-user] Auto Response: from [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, I am currently on holiday and will only return on the 2nd of January 2008. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Kind Regards, Johan Boshoff Network Administrator Connix Internet 0860 CONNIX ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:35:58 -0800 (PST) From: Daryl Caudill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Ebox-user] Why is ebox moving from debian to ubuntu? To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Greetings fellow admins! I must say I'm stunned by this. Why on earth would anyone want to switch servers from debian to ubuntu? Is it Debian isn't good enough anymore, or ubuntu is somehow better as a server? I apologize for starting an argument, but I do feel the point should be made. I can't be the only person wondering about this. I am not trolling, but in good conscience I cannot accept this idea. I just do not understand. Why would ebox even consider changing distro's? and moving to ubuntu? Why would any server software want to run on an unstable, bleeding edge distribution like ubuntu? For those of you who don't know this, Ubuntu is based on taking a snapshot of debian's UNSTABLE sid version (you read right, I said unstable, aka "as new as it gets, updated daily"), clean some things up, then release it as ubuntu. Ubuntu is BLEEDING EDGE software. It is far from stable. It should never be used for production server use. It is for experimental and non-production use. If you disagree, good luck supporting those servers, you'll need it. I would never build a server based on unstable software from any distribution, including debian' s unstable branch. I wouldn't even build a server based on debian's testing "lenny" version which has been heavily tested, but still not yet considered stable. I build my servers using thoroughly tested STABLE code, currently debian etch. Why on earth would anyone want to build a server using unstable code like ubuntu is beyond my comprehension. I wouldn't want to support it. Think about it. That is a massive support disaster waiting to happen. That's point one, changing distros, don't do it! Point two is the target audience. Most debian admins are experienced. Most ubuntu people are GREEN GREEN GREEN. I realize ubuntu is the most popular linux desktop right now, so is this a move to expand the market acceptance of ebox? Do you really want to support your server software run by people new to linux? Just look at the ubuntu forums. It's a noob fest, full of people new to linux. A noob asks a question, then 10 other noobs respond with that they "think" it "might be". EGADS! They have no clue what LDIF or vi is. This mailing list will quickly be dominated by noob ubuntu questions that have nothing to do with ebox. Instead of LDAP questions, you'll have "I can't boot" questions. Do you really want to target people who have less than one year linux experience? It takes years of experience integrating LDAP with samba, mail, squid, vpn, etc. These are amongst the hardest linux technologies to learn. I understand ebox is trying to make it easier for people to have an integrated server without EXTENSIVE experience, and I applaud that, but do you really want to target people with no experience, who can't do anything without a mouse? Here's a comparision: a person is new to windows, using it for only one year. Hey, lets give them a free copy of windows SERVER, and watch them try to figure out active directory, when they don't know the difference between RAM and ROM and hard disk storage. Two cups of coffee and they'll have active directory licked :) I know, that example is extreme, but not off by much! I'm sure you get my point. I'm now building my integrated servers on debian etch, using all standard packages. I recently discovered ebox and want to use it, but I'm not willing to go back to Debian Sarge. It's too old, and is not the current stable version. I really really wish I could be using that great ebox interface on my servers, but I can't. I'm stuck with custom scripts, and tools like phpldapadmin and webmin. However, I'd rather have to configure things manually on a current stable server, then have a gui on an unreliable ubuntu server. I can't be the only admin who feels this way. Please, I beg you to reconsider. Stay with debian. Get ebox working on Etch. Make sure it's ready to upgrade when Lenny goes stable. Don't turn your back on a solid distro with experienced admins. Fix what you have, before creating more problems. My name is on this post, and I welcome genuine debate. I realize I'm being pretty hard on ubuntu, but my point is still valid. I see no advantage switching distributions, other than targeting more (albeit green) users, at the cost of reliability. Is it worth it? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.warp.es/pipermail/ebox-user/attachments/20071221/1773fb63/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:00:04 -0500 From: "Andrew Latham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Ebox-user] Why is ebox moving from debian to ubuntu? To: "eBox users" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Daryl I think that your points are valid, not well formed. There are other projects out there that you can use if you have issues with eBox. If you wish to change something, submit code. I use the Mandriva Directory Server and other systems to satisfy my needs. I use eBox for quickly getting small business and or homes the services they need. NTP, DHCP and DNS are vital for every network and eBox does those things well. I do enjoy the quick solution for Jabber and print shareing as well. I invite you to submit the updates to eBox for your dream target OS and watch as the source speaks for its self. I am very happy with the project. Unstable is not the word I would use for Ubuntu. I use most all the many Linux Distributions out there for many different purposes, they are as stable as you set them up to be and all much more stable then the non OSS solutions. Andrew On Dec 21, 2007 3:35 PM, Daryl Caudill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Greetings fellow admins! > > I must say I'm stunned by this. Why on earth would anyone want to switch > servers from debian to ubuntu? Is it Debian isn't good enough anymore, or > ubuntu is somehow better as a server? > > I apologize for starting an argument, but I do feel the point should be > made. I can't be the only person wondering about this. I am not trolling, > but in good conscience I cannot accept this idea. I just do not understand. > Why would ebox even consider changing distro's? and moving to ubuntu? Why > would any server software want to run on an unstable, bleeding edge > distribution like ubuntu? > > For those of you who don't know this, Ubuntu is based on taking a snapshot > of debian's UNSTABLE sid version (you read right, I said unstable, aka "as > new as it gets, updated daily"), clean some things up, then release it as > ubuntu. Ubuntu is BLEEDING EDGE software. It is far from stable. It > should never be used for production server use. It is for experimental and > non-production use. If you disagree, good luck supporting those servers, > you'll need it. > > I would never build a server based on unstable software from any > distribution, including debian' s unstable branch. I wouldn't even build a > server based on debian's testing "lenny" version which has been heavily > tested, but still not yet considered stable. I build my servers using > thoroughly tested STABLE code, currently debian etch. Why on earth would > anyone want to build a server using unstable code like ubuntu is beyond my > comprehension. I wouldn't want to support it. Think about it. That is a > massive support disaster waiting to happen. > > That's point one, changing distros, don't do it! > > Point two is the target audience. Most debian admins are experienced. Most > ubuntu people are GREEN GREEN GREEN. > > I realize ubuntu is the most popular linux desktop right now, so is this a > move to expand the market acceptance of ebox? > > Do you really want to support your server software run by people new to > linux? Just look at the ubuntu forums. It's a noob fest, full of people > new to linux. A noob asks a question, then 10 other noobs respond with that > they "think" it "might be". EGADS! They have no clue what LDIF or vi is. > > This mailing list will quickly be dominated by noob ubuntu questions that > have nothing to do with ebox. Instead of LDAP questions, you'll have "I > can't boot" questions. Do you really want to target people who have less > than one year linux experience? > > It takes years of experience integrating LDAP with samba, mail, squid, vpn, > etc. These are amongst the hardest linux technologies to learn. I > understand ebox is trying to make it easier for people to have an integrated > server without EXTENSIVE experience, and I applaud that, but do you really > want to target people with no experience, who can't do anything without a > mouse? > > Here's a comparision: a person is new to windows, using it for only one > year. Hey, lets give them a free copy of windows SERVER, and watch them try > to figure out active directory, when they don't know the difference between > RAM and ROM and hard disk storage. Two cups of coffee and they'll have > active directory licked :) I know, that example is extreme, but not off by > much! I'm sure you get my point. > > I'm now building my integrated servers on debian etch, using all standard > packages. I recently discovered ebox and want to use it, but I'm not > willing to go back to Debian Sarge. It's too old, and is not the current > stable version. > > I really really wish I could be using that great ebox interface on my > servers, but I can't. I'm stuck with custom scripts, and tools like > phpldapadmin and webmin. However, I'd rather have to configure things > manually on a current stable server, then have a gui on an unreliable ubuntu > server. I can't be the only admin who feels this way. > > Please, I beg you to reconsider. Stay with debian. Get ebox working on > Etch. Make sure it's ready to upgrade when Lenny goes stable. Don't turn > your back on a solid distro with experienced admins. Fix what you have, > before creating more problems. > > My name is on this post, and I welcome genuine debate. I realize I'm being > pretty hard on ubuntu, but my point is still valid. I see no advantage > switching distributions, other than targeting more (albeit green) users, at > the cost of reliability. Is it worth it? > > > > ________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > _______________________________________________ > Ebox-user mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.warp.es/mailman/listinfo/ebox-user > -- /* Andrew Latham LATHAMA (lay-th-ham-eh) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] TuxTone Inc. http://www.TuxTone.com */ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:54:00 -0500 From: Rudy Godoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Ebox-user] Why is ebox moving from debian to ubuntu? To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Era el Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:35:58 -0800 (PST) cuando Daryl Caudill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribiC3: > Greetings fellow admins! > > I must say I'm stunned by this. Why on earth would anyone want to switch > servers from debian to ubuntu? Is it Debian isn't good enough anymore, or > ubuntu is somehow better as a server? > > I apologize for starting an argument, but I do feel the point should be > made. I can't be the only person wondering about this. I am not trolling, > but in good conscience I cannot accept this idea. I just do not understand. > Why would ebox even consider changing distro's? and moving to ubuntu? Why > would any server software want to run on an unstable, bleeding edge > distribution like ubuntu? > > For those of you who don't know this, Ubuntu is based on taking a snapshot of > debian's UNSTABLE sid version (you read right, I said unstable, aka "as new > as it gets, updated daily"), clean some things up, then release it as > ubuntu. Ubuntu is BLEEDING EDGE software. It is far from stable. It should > never be used for production server use. It is for experimental and > non-production use. If you disagree, good luck supporting those servers, > you'll need it. I would never build a server based on unstable software from > any distribution, including debian' s unstable branch. I wouldn't even build > a server based on debian's testing "lenny" version which has been heavily > tested, but still not yet considered stable. I build my servers using > thoroughly tested STABLE code, currently debian etch. Why on earth would > anyone want to build a server using unstable code like ubuntu is beyond my > comprehension. I wouldn't want to support it. Think about it. That is a > massive support disaster waiting to happen. > > That's point one, changing distros, don't do it! > > Point two is the target audience. Most debian admins are experienced. Most > ubuntu people are GREEN GREEN GREEN. > > I realize ubuntu is the most popular linux desktop right now, so is this a > move to expand the market acceptance of ebox? > > Do you really want to support your server software run by people new to > linux? Just look at the ubuntu forums. It's a noob fest, full of people new > to linux. A noob asks a question, then 10 other noobs respond with that they > "think" it "might be". EGADS! They have no clue what LDIF or vi is. > > This mailing list will quickly be dominated by noob ubuntu questions that > have nothing to do with ebox. Instead of LDAP questions, you'll have "I > can't boot" questions. Do you really want to target people who have less > than one year linux experience? > > It takes years of experience integrating LDAP with samba, mail, squid, vpn, > etc. These are amongst the hardest linux technologies to learn. I > understand ebox is trying to make it easier for people to have an integrated > server without EXTENSIVE experience, and I applaud that, but do you really > want to target people with no experience, who can't do anything without a > mouse? > > Here's a comparision: a person is new to windows, using it for only one > year. Hey, lets give them a free copy of windows SERVER, and watch them try > to figure out active directory, when they don't know the difference between > RAM and ROM and hard disk storage. Two cups of coffee and they'll have > active directory licked :) I know, that example is extreme, but not off by > much! I'm sure you get my point. > > I'm now building my integrated servers on debian etch, using all standard > packages. I recently discovered ebox and want to use it, but I'm not willing > to go back to Debian Sarge. It's too old, and is not the current stable > version. > > I really really wish I could be using that great ebox interface on my > servers, but I can't. I'm stuck with custom scripts, and tools like > phpldapadmin and webmin. However, I'd rather have to configure things > manually on a current stable server, then have a gui on an unreliable ubuntu > server. I can't be the only admin who feels this way. > > Please, I beg you to reconsider. Stay with debian. Get ebox working on > Etch. Make sure it's ready to upgrade when Lenny goes stable. Don't turn > your back on a solid distro with experienced admins. Fix what you have, > before creating more problems. > There's a bug filled on the eBox Trac, you can comment on this. Currently we at HTU are working on supporting eBox on Debian unstable (which at some point becomes stable and release). Feel free to add suggestions or patches. regards -- Rudy Godoy Gerente Comercial HTU Networks http://www.htu.com.pe tel.: +51-1-223-2442 cel.: +51-1-92807020 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Ebox-user mailing list [email protected] https://lists.warp.es/mailman/listinfo/ebox-user End of Ebox-user Digest, Vol 20, Issue 20 ***************************************** _______________________________________________ Ebox-user mailing list [email protected] https://lists.warp.es/mailman/listinfo/ebox-user
