Andrey,
Comments below.
Andrey Platov wrote:
Hi Ed,
There is a couple of useful documents: XAML Object Mapping Spec
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd128754.aspx) and WPF XAML
Vocabulary Spec (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd128753.aspx)
Yes, I was looking at those.
XAML is just a XML-based format for serialized WPF/.NET objects tree...
It seems folks are quite focused on this XML aspect though with talk of
DOM and XML editors that center around a source view of that XML...
So MS's defines WPF model in EMF-friendly OO fashion (XamlType)
Hehehe. I see. Defining it in a more formal notation is always kind of
nice too, but I could imagine mapping this to UML or Ecore to produce an
abstract model...
instead of using any W3C stuff...
Ptewy. :-P
Regarding Oslo and XAML, guys please realize that XAML is just a
serialization format.
I suppose I was pushing a bit on exactly that point. A focus on the
XML might well miss the abstract model forest for all the concrete
syntax trees.
If Oslo would be helpful for developing DSLs for WPF, XAML may become
obsolete and WPF objects will be authored with that DSL.
Go Oslo go!
XAML in fact is nothing more than say XMI.
Ptewy. :-P
Another important thing is XAML is not supposed to be first-class
launguage for UI development, like no one seriously thinking to use
XMI for EMF-based models authoring.
That all certainly fits my abstract view of the world. Thanks for the
insights!
Kind Regards,
Andrey
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Merks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "E4 developer list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2008 3:26:54 PM GMT +06:00 Almaty,
Novosibirsk
Subject: Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] Fw: Declarative UI roundup?
Angelo,
I was trying to find an XML Schema for XAML. Is there one? DOM is
very unconstrained so building a DOM that's well-formed XAML seems
important...
Are you aware of http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/sldt/?
It's interesting to see some of the Oslo developments. It makes you
wonder if Microsoft will build a DSL for XAML. :-)
http://channel9.msdn.com/tags/Oslo/
XML continues to strike me as a poor man's excuse for human readable
syntax that's primarily driven by a desire to avoid having to write
lexers and parsers. It's great for interchange, but not so great for
humans.
Cheers,
Ed
Angelo zerr wrote:
Hi Kevin,
The subject is very interesting but I believe that Eclipse E4 have
intention to use EMF.
I would like call about TK-UI for declarative UI but TK-UI use DOM
and it seems that people prefer EMF than DOM.
I would like just say too, that I'm refactoring TK-UI to use
UFace <http://code.google.com/p/uface/>(where I'm contributing)
which propose this project to Eclipse
http://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Incubator/UFacekit
I think that UFace is very interesting for declarative UI because :
* it provide universal API to render it to SWT, Swing, QT, GWT...
(UIElement )
* manage binding with JFace Databinding. So you can bind
properties of widget (visible, text...), layout properties
(orientation, with...)
with anything. Into TK-UI it's easy to bind DOM element,
attributes with tje UIElement. Each properties (ex : setVisible)
notify listeners.
* manage Databinding with UIForm. It's easy to manage master
detail and into TK-UI I'm using to manage Databinding Expression
Language (like XAML binding epression).
Regards Angelo
2008/11/5 Kevin McGuire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
Thanks all who responded to my previous note. As we did for
the styling roundup, it'd be great if people could fill in a
bit of information about a proposed technology as prep for us
all for a call.
At your earliest convenience, please take a moment to fill in
an entry in the following table:
http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/DeclarativeUI/Declarative_Construction_Roundup
You'll notice a striking resemblance to the styling one we
did, about midway down
http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/DeclarativeUI/Styling_Roundup.
The idea here is that providing the information shouldn't be
laborious on the part of the presenter, but enough for
everyone to get started investigating. We'll then have a
bakeoff call, post slides and notes back to the wiki.
We should aim to have the call in a few weeks.
Best Regards,
Kevin
----- Forwarded by Kevin McGuire/Ottawa/IBM on 11/04/2008
06:16 PM -----
*Kevin McGuire/Ottawa/IBM*
10/14/2008 05:49 PM
To
"E4 developer list"
cc
Subject
Declarative UI roundup?
Hi gang,
As you may recall, in August we had a Styling roundup to look
at the different available skinning technologies. While
organizing it, we discussed also wanting to do one for
declarative UIs.
There was a lot of interest at the time, and there's been lots
of discussion on this list lately about different declarative
UI technologies/approaches. I think the Styling one went well
so I was wondering if folks wanted to do one for declarative
UIs?
Seehttp://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/DeclarativeUI/Styling_Roundup
<http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/DeclarativeUI/Styling_Roundup> for
an idea.
This would involve some people volunteering to do a short
presentation on a particular technology, either their own
(e.g. XSWT) or one they are familiar with (e.g. XUL). There'd
be some prep in putting a small amount of information on the
e4 wiki, then a call with presentations. The idea is to have
some decent content to discuss but not create a big
presentation job for folks, so the emphasis would be on short
presentations (and also out of the interest of keeping the
call to say 1.5 hours which will be a challenge I think).
The goals of the call would include but not be limited to:
1) All getting on the "same page" with respect to the
different technology choices available to us.
2) Open discussion of pros/cons of different approaches.
3) What problems we believe it will solve in the e4 context.
4) Hopefully come away with a small number of "most promising"
technologies which the community could focus on in e4.
Any interest? Note that this is community driven content, so
"yes" would mean "yes I'll sign up to provide some content".
Regards,
Kevin
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