Dear ecofem,
Unfortunately it's me again. Now we are on milk, are we ? I'm not
sure how drinking milk from creatures other than our human mothers
could be considered 'unnatural' relative to any other eating
practices of ours. Just as an aside, in parts of Wales it was until
recently the practice for women to go down to the primary schools at
breaktime to allow their children to breastfeed through the railings.
Margaret Thatcher was first notorious for removing the free school
mill entitlement - perhaps she felt that it wouldn't make much
difference !
Anyway, if you think it's a matter of what is 'natural' perhaps, once
again, it would be worth looking at what other creatures actually do.
I presume we are agreed that non-human animals have no choice but to
behave 'naturally' ? If so, how do you explain the love of milk so
obvious in domestic cats (even though cows milk often makes them a
bit queasy) ? Perhaps it might be felt that they are 'tainted' by
association with us ? If so, what about the habit - noticed back in
the 16th century at the latest - of hedgehogs licking up patches of
milk from under grazing cows ? Better still, how 'bout this: in
Britain milk is still often delivered in glass botteles left outside
the front door. Somewhere in the South-East a lovely little bird
called the blue tit took up the practice of pecking through the
aluminium lids to get at the cream. Amazingly, this local habit swept
the nation (the bird nation, that is) and soon everyone was coming
out in the morning to find their milk bottles plundering by these
splendid, subversive, acrobatic and - yes, I'm afraid so - wholly
natural creatures !
Yours,
Greg Garrard
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Sep 20 02:49:16 1996
From: "G.GARRARD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: University of Wales Swansea
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:52:56 GMT0BST
Subject: Re: Environment?
Dear Ms Sullivan,
Hmm, yes, boisterousness ... Sorry about the 'ignorance' line ... The
foie gras point stands, because this stuff need not be made by
horribly inhumane methods. The practice of injection was not
necessary (obviously - its production far predates hypodermics) and
has now been stopped. From what you say, America needs tighter
controls, although animals thrashing about after 'stunning' may be
akin to chickens running about with no heads ? Human beings also
twitch involuntarily after death, I believe. Are abuses widespread ?
I suspect neither of us can be sure. After all, it depends on who
gets caught. I don't mean to be too nationalistic, but I hope thing
are better in Britain, where reactions to veal-calf export indicate a
very widespread opposition to animal cruelty. A general social
sentiment against brutalisation is -always- more effective than
legislation, which has to be enforced. I think we can all agree (I
hope so) that the world would a better place if omnivores demanded
decent treatment for their prospective dinners. After all, we will
always be around.
By the way, if this debate between myself and Ms Sullivan is boring
others, say so and we can continue off-list ....?
Yours,
G Garrard
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Sep 20 02:58:49 1996
From: "G.GARRARD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: University of Wales Swansea
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:04:55 GMT0BST
Subject: Literature conf
Dear ecofem,
I am organising a conference in Wales on English Literatures and the
Natural Environment, as well as conducting a running debate with the
veggie faction ! Sadly we have had very few contributions on
literature and ecofeminism. Tell your friends, shout it from the
rooftops - this conference needs to hear about ecofeminism ! If you
have a proposal, please submit it in about 500 words to
[EMAIL PROTECTED], or send hard copy to G Garrard, English
Dept., University of Wales Swansea, Singleton Park, Swansea, SA2 8PP,
UK. Closing date is 31st October 1996, and the conference will be
held from 25th-27th March 1997. We would also welcome creative
contributions (poems, stories, etc) - please send a complete sample
of your work. Thanks !
Greg Garrard
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Sep 20 03:05:40 1996
From: "G.GARRARD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: University of Wales Swansea
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:12:37 GMT0BST
Subject: Re: veg. discussion
Dear Betty,
Thank you so much for your excellent reply. If you want to really
waste some time - in between cruelly savaging your lawn - you could
wade through some 'ecophilosophy'. Not all is utter codswallop (as we
say over here) but a lot is; I went to a conference where a speaker
argued just such a case regarding inanimate objects, and concluded by
launching a plea on behalf of planets such as Mars and Venus, which
are in imminent danger of being beaten up by space probes sent by the
evil empire of NASA.
Why is there so much 'wishful thinking' about ? I suspect that the
absence of any contact with actual animals (besides pets) and a
massive sentimentalisation of nature are joint culprits. The
indifference of most of nature is incredibly obvious to anyone that
actually looks, so I presume that no-one is looking ?
Yours,
Greg Garrard
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Sep 20 03:23:39 1996
From: "G.GARRARD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: University of Wales Swansea
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:30:32 GMT0BST
Subject: Re: environment?
Good grief ! I didn't mean Los Angeles, I meant sub-Saharan Africa,
Tibet, North Wales, the Russian steppes ... (though overgrazing is a
big problem in Africa at least). As for saying 'so many people
shouldn't live there', while I agree about LA, that looks a bit
different when applied to the real examples. Perhaps you should ask
the Indonesian govt about population 'transfer' (ie forced eviction,
appropriation, etc). Perhaps the Mongolians should move to ..
Beijing?
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Sep 20 03:32:10 1996
From: "G.GARRARD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: University of Wales Swansea
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:39:19 GMT0BST
Subject: Re: Environment?
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 21:57:57 +0800
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kylie Matthews)
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Environment?
Or should the US - with all that splendid
>arable land - simply feed the world ?
Well why not? Actually the US when there is an oversupply of wheat do not
give it to the starving. But they litterally throw it away. Why? Because
it is uneconomic.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
True Kylie, but then dumping it onto vulnerable Third World markets
would destroy local production, as food aid often does ...
My point is just that pastoral meat-eaters ought not to be castigated
by those infinitely more blessed than themselves.
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Sep 20 07:53:33 1996
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 16:54:35 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tatiana Pappas)
Organization: Thessaloniki 1997 - Cultural Capital of Europe
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Women and hunting
References: <v01510105ae632d8af1a9@[203.59.25.12]>
I tried to post personally to Ms Debra Rusz
but the system didn't work.
My intention was to send it to contact her personally.
Dear Debra Rusz,
I'm new in the list. My name is Tatjana, I'm 26 and I live in Greece.
I think I can contribute to your research.
I won't give you a direct answer.
I'll tell you a short story.
My grand-father is a hunter. When I was a little child, he was telling me
that if I'm a good girl, he'll take me with him to go hunting on Sunday
morning. I did my best to be a good girl during the week and I was
looking forward on Sunday morning. My grand-father never took me with him
to go hunting. He was getting up earlier than me and when I opened my
eyes in the morning he was gone. When I was a child, and during my teens,
I wanted very much to go hunting.
Now, I wouldn't like to do such a thing, to kill animals, but if I lived
in a place, where hunting was essential for the nutrition and the
survival of me and my family, I would be a hunter.
That is all I know.
If you want to use my experience in your research, pls don't use my real
name.
I'm at your disposal, if you have any questins.
Best regards
Tatjana
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Sep 20 09:36:53 1996
From: "Michelle E. Jarvie-Schoech" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: women and hunting
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:36:47 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> from "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" at Sep 19, 96
12:51:44 pm
Debra,
I found your qeustions on women who hunt interesting. I am an eco
feminist, and I hunt. I only eat meat that I kill, and I give the hides
to a native friend of mine to use. I don't believe hunting goes against
being woman. Women are fierce in all species, try getting between a
mother bear and her cubs. To kill another animal is to participate in the
food chain. I always hunt with a license, which are issued by the DNR for
herd management because humand have desrtoyed to much of our animals
natural habitat that we need to keep their numbers down to a sustainable
level. Personally, I have a problem with the meat industry, not eating
meat.
You can email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you'd like to discuss this further.
michelle Jarvie
Graduate student in Environmental Policy
