Brian-
I thought your message regarding the 2 live crew example was clear. Good
point. If you get this message, would you mind responding to me? I don't
think people are getting my posts when I write them personally. thank you.
Rachel Coles
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>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 24 14:19:51 MDT 1994
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 24 14:19:50 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:22:10 -0600 (MDT)
From: anne jordan dashiell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: What IS Going On Here?
To: Jayne S Docherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: Multiple recipients of list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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im pretty disinterested in the discussion thats going on right now...but
i am reading the posts still. and really, it seems like a lot of you are
getting really self-riteous and preachy about things that were obviously
not meant in the way you took them. why dont you try clarifying questions
that irk you before spouting off about them because really, its nothing
many of us havent heard already and to be honest, most of my experience
with these types of questions of silencing, privilege etc...has been
about talking in circles and getting hung up on semantics, rather than
truly confronting the middle class white assumptions of the dominant
members (including myself) of this list, and in turn of the dominant
culture.
i think the
overwhelming academic tone of this list has a lot to do with it, and its
starting to get on my nerves personally. like i said before, i
think a lot of us/you fall into this mode of thinking that if we
quote enough books and use enough catchphrases we are somehow
actively deconstructing western culture. well, the only way the
shit is comin down is if we privileged types can actually challenge and
break down the stuff in ourselves that keeps us quoting and
spouting by getting out of our classrooms and compute screens and
putting our hands in the dirt and applying our tidy little theories
to the way we interact with the "outside world".
.....and so i think the academic undercurrent here is a problem.
infact i think the fact that most of us are involved in academia, or
that it even exists as it does, is a problem. but it does and here we are.....
one specific thing is i think its VITAL to not try and find any "rules of
discussion" on
here. i think its important that people let discussions run their own
course, and i say if you get freaked out over confrontation, anger and
"visciousness" then maybe you have your head up your butt because we
all have those energies in us and repressing them is what makes people go
on killing sprees so i think this is a good place to vent them.
maybe this would be a good topic for discussion, seeing as we have some
avid peacemaker/nonviolence types on the list. im interested in your
perspectives cuz my experiences with "pacifists" has been extremely
frustrating and i find them generally to be out of their minds.
maybe its a generational thing..except there are plenty of older folks
who catch my drift..they just arent involved in academia.... and i have
yet to meet an academian who can deal with what im saying. and i think
theres somthing to that.
-anne
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 24 19:22:10 MDT 1994
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 24 19:22:09 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 18:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Faith BarrGlover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Diversity
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I just want to make a brief comment in support of Dorceta's questions in
her second post about diversity. I have found thorough many years of
being part of feminist spiritual and environmental groups that I
occasionally feel less-than-acceptable because of my heterosexual
orientation; some of this, I've found, is just my insecurity; some of it
has been directly expressed to me and about me within my hearing.
I'm always surprised to find intolerance in a marginalized or supressed
group ... and I keep bumping my nose or barking my shin because I go in
expecting to find genuine tolerance, a tolerance bred from knowing how it
feels to be oppressed.
Not having been overly oppressed myself, I can't understand fully how the
intolerance happens. I can empathize with the rage, impatience and
self-protective elitism that develop; but isn't there a next stage? Do
people really NOT know how to work together? Or is the whole point just
to achieve, as Starhawk so aptly put it, "power over" rather than "power
with."
We all have our areas of intolerance. I've just shown you one of mine.
I can't get through my own blind spots unless someone is willing to
discourse with me (not harangue, lecture or debate) about them so that I
may understand those blind spots better and choose to mend them ... or
choose to keep them.
This is a difficult question; I'm glad Dorceta asked it, and I hope that
ecofem list participants can respond thoughtfully rather than knee-jerk
flaming.
Faith Barr-Glover
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 24 20:29:10 MDT 1994
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 24 20:29:09 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 21:32:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sara Ann Keating <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ECOFEM digest 49
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OK, just a few comments here:
Anne:What is your problem with academics? Most of the things you
mentioned, particularly not being active, are hardly limited to
academia. What is wrong with the current structure of modern academics?
Brian, Doug, everyone: Geez, people, will you all say something
new? I think what most people object to is decisions about what they
eat being made by a generally very small group of people, particularly in
situations where they may not be able to get anywhere else for
food(especially in a strange city, very much so if one does not have
transportation.) It is also the implicit statement--"We don't want you
meat-eaters are you are, so either convert or get out"--that bugs people
about such things. It sends a statement of unwelcomeness; that, more
than having to try new dishes, is the problem. It would be like setting
up a Great Rite and saying only homosexual sexuality would be allowed,
when part of the group is hetero.
Sara Keating
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