Hi -
Could you send me some information on the femrel-l listserv? Or how I
could go about finding information on it?
I too am tired of being judged because I'm not a wiccan or goddess
worshipper even though I'm a feminist and environmentalist...
> ----------
> Sent: September 15, 1998 8:12 PM
> To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
> Subject: Re: All Living Things Have Souls!
>
> Angela have you tried the femrel-l listserv or something to that
> effect.
> It is largely religious and feminist in its emphasis but they
> certainly
> welcome other topics such as environmentalism. I was preached too much
> by
> wiccans if you can believe it, which is why I left. (Not for being a
> christian they seem to welcome christians just not atheists)
>
> Bertina
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (glad to hear you are staying)
>
> On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 98-09-15 10:24:00 EDT, you write:
> >
> > << I have found many of your posts enlightening.
> > >>
> > Hi! Thanks Bertina - I will stay - If we can keep sharing what we
> know, what
> > we believe and what we are learning each day to make things better
> we can keep
> > the momentum going to help heal the Eco-crisis. I was thinking
> today that we
> > could always find blame - in anything - but the real challenge is to
> find
> > solutions to these social and environmental problems and implement
> them
> > quickly and efficiently. I am currently looking for a spiritual
> environmental
> > listserv - I will continue on this listserv and go with the give and
> take and
> > I try to refrain from preaching too much!
> >
> > Peace and thanks!
> > Angela
> >
> > "I offer my eyes to the Earth so that it can have my prespective.
> Offer all
> > my senses so that all that I see from this place the Earth can see."
> John
> > Seed
> >
> > Here is a short challenge that I am taking on and invite you to join
> me:
> >
> > If an alien came to this planet and asked you this question:
> >
> > "What is wrong with the Earth? How do you think Ecofeminism can
> help?
> >
> > But the alien only had a half hour to hear you out so I had to keep
> it short
> > and write it in down for the alien in one or two paragraph - what
> would you
> > say and write?
> >
> > Anyone else want to answer this alien?
> >
> > Oh - the alien does not know emotions such as love and hate - does
> not know
> > what pollution is and does not know about the web of life. So your
> > explaination cannot be baffling with those words! For example can
> not say
> > things like "We have to love more and hate less." Because hate and
> love are
> > foreign, undefined words - you have to be more specific!
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Angela
> >
> >
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Sep 16 11:53:24 1998
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:53:53 -0500
From: Connie Sunday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Can animals reason?
Please note:
(1) Buddah is spelled with an "h" at the end.
(2) The Buddah was an ordinary man who attained enlightenment.
Buddhists do not worship him. Buddhism does not worship any god or
gods. For you to suggest that they do betrays your total lack of of
understanding or even any contact with Buddhism in any form, is
insulting to Buddhists (who will forgive you, of course, easier than you
may imagine); you might want to acquire some knowledge about other
forms of spiritual development before you make yourself look foolish by
such obtuse statements.
(3) Your choice of dogs, dolphins, etc., is ill choosen. Human beings
consistently make grave errors based on variables other than the ones
you mention, such as group pressure and habit. Human beings are animals
and there is only that distinction in the male dominated, Eurocentric
viewpoint, a viewpoint, I might add, which is no longer working and has
done and is doing immeasurable harm to the planet.
Regards,
Connie
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Regarding animals ability to reason:
>
> Reasoning - Food for thought - Meanings are as follows:
>
> Logical - Is swimming right into a fishing net logical thought?
> Dolphins
> have great personalities but they can not avoid swimming into nets -
> Perfect
> example of instinct and inability to reason! They always swim there
> instinctively and will continue to swim there with or without net
> presence.
>
> Rational - Is obeying a human who impedes on your freedom rational
> thought?
> Birds are beautiful creatures - I wish I could fly with my own wings
> -for now
> I fly on the wings of love. However, a bird would allow a human to
> cage it
> and keep it caged without fleeing to freedom and still honor that
> person? Is
> that rational thought? Just behaving instinctively to its surrounding
> - no
> reasoning there. The bird does not ask itself rationally WHY is the
> person
> impeding on my freedom - why am I not in the forest among my other
> bird
> friends and family - that would be rational thought!
>
> Sensible - is eating dog food sensible thought? Dogs make great pets
> - great
> personalities - the wolfs among us - however, if you were sensible
> would you
> eat dog food? Or is the dog eating out of behaviorial instinct to
> survive -
> not sensible thinking there - the dog does not hold out for better
> food which
> would be the sensible thing to do!
>
> AWARE - is swimming upstream when you know Grizzly bears will eat you
> awareness? Salmon are amazing fish - really - how they instinctively
> swim
> upstream to breed - for continuance of their species - survival
> instincts kick
> in. However, if they were AWARE in thought that the grizzly bear was
> always
> there - would they continue that path or find a new path that would
> increase
> their odds of survival? They can not reason with awareness!
>
> Knowing - Is scratching furniture and ripping your owners home knowing
>
> thought?
> A cat can be such a loving curious kind of pet - I love cats - I
> especially
> love the big cats! However, a house cat who is not declawed and not
> given
> proper toys to play with will scatch the daylights our of chair legs -
> now is
> that knowing - if they knew what they were doing - destroying their
> owners
> furniture - they would KNOW that they were behaving improperly but
> they can
> not reason - they are just sharpening their claws - instinctive
> behavior.
>
> Are you following this? These are just a few examples
> HOWEVER - Because we can reason/knowingling with our brains as humans
> does
> that make other animals inferior? No,
>
> But this ability to reason with our brains should make us more
> responsible/rational to the animals who can not - and only behave - We
> should
> respect that they deserve to live, freely without our impediment of
> that and
> you take away their need to reason -which they don't have anyway -
> then they become as free-spirited as we are. They
> are feeling, loving, creatures who have rights - but we are (well, we
> should
> be) rational
> humans who care about those rights and treat them as co-inhabitants
> and we
> care about
> our home and theirs rationally! But, please do not say that they
> reason/think/rationalize/know the way humans do because they do not!
> They can not!
>
> Peace!
> Angela
--
Connie Sunday [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1162/
The best index to a person's character is
(a) how he treats people who can't do him any good, and
(b) how he treats people who can't fight back. -Abagail Van Buren
