MRS. MILLER DO NOT SEND ANYMORE E-MAILS TO THIS ADDRESS!! I DO NOT
APPRECIATE THE 86 E-MAILS THAT WERE FORWARDED TO ME!!
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 9:50 AM
> To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
> Subject: RE: new participant/reply Ecofem lit
>
> I do believe a person can post to the list--Angela just said she would
> not
> try to preach to us anymore.
>
> Bertina
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, sarah clifton wrote:
>
> > I understand how you can escape the patriarchal reality of
> Christianity
> > with excuses like "God is omnipotent." The fact is that your
> language
> > itself, your manner of speaking in terms of masculinity, domination,
> > "sin", etc. is inherently contrary to both the goals and the
> methodology
> > of ecofemism. There is a place for Geocentrism in Christianity -
> just
> > don't confuse it with ecofemism. It insults all of us.
> >
> > P.S. I thought that you weren't going to post to the list anymore.
> >
> > > :
> > >
> > > << I ask Ecolady, have you ever read any academic ecofem
> > > literature? (Karen Warren, Vandana Shiva, Val Plumwood, Judith
> Plant,
> > > Charlene Spretnak, etc., etc.). If you had then you would know
> that
> > > it
> > > is precicely the PATRIARCHAL establishments like Christianity
> that
> > > have
> > > been the systematic oppressors of women and nature.
> > > >>
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > Sarah in reply to this question yes - I only read one (twice)
> > > "Ecofeminism and
> > > the Sacred" Carol J. Adams, Editor - Authors in book, Rosemary
> Radford
> > > Ruether, Delores S. Williams, Catherine Keller, Stephanie Kaza,
> Judith
> > > Plaskow, Sallie McFague, Lina Gupta, Karen J. Warren, L. Teal
> > > Willoughby,
> > > Ellen Cronan Rose, Andy Smith, Gloria Feman Orenstein, Shamarra
> Shantu
> > > Riley,
> > > Carol Lee Sanchez, Jane Caputi, Rebecca Johnson, Charlene
> Spretnak,
> > > Carol J.
> > > Adams, Marjorie Procter- Smith, Zoe Weil.
> > >
> > > The book is broken down to 3 parts - Part 1 - Revisioning
> Religion,
> > > Part 2-
> > > Envisioning Ecofeminism, Part 3 - Emobying Ecofeminist
> Spiritualities.
> > >
> > > The book has gathered writings that "provide vital insights into
> the
> > > causes of
> > > current environmental crises as well as important recommendations
> for
> > > addressing them."
> > >
> > > I highly recommend it if you haven't read it!
> > >
> > > The Christian Theologist in the book says Christians should assert
> SIN
> > > as the
> > > cause of the Eco-Crisis - The sin of Greed - I agree!
> > >
> > > Re: Patriarchial religion - The referring to God as White Male in
> the
> > > sky -
> > > has got to go out with yesterdays bathwater - God is Omnipotent -
> > > Alpha and
> > > Omega _ beyond human gender comprehension - so then If God just
> wants
> > > to be
> > > referred to as FATHER - not white male god in the sky - I say "Ok
> God
> > > - you're
> > > the boss - I am just your humble servant - amen."
> > >
> > > End of fanatic rant.
> > > Peace!
> > > Angela
> > >
> > >
> >
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 06:20:42 1998
From: Donald Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Turkey to die on air
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:19:45 -0600
DO NOT SEND ANYMORE E-MAIL TO THIS ADDRESS
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 1998 12:00 PM
> To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
> Subject: Turkey to die on air
>
> Forwarded by bunny:
>
> If anyone can help, I received this info recently-
>
> Subject: (US-NJ) Torture on the air!
> Two hosts by the name of Deminsky and Doyle([EMAIL PROTECTED]) on a Talk
> radio station in New Jersey (http://www.nj1015.com) thought it would
> be great fun to kill a turkey live on-air this Tuesday 11/24
>
> I have sent an email to protest this event to the station's general
> manager John Dziuba ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) If you are so inclined,
> please
> also send emails to voice your displeasure. You can also call NJ 1015
> toll free at 1-800-283-1015, or go to the web site and leave comments!
> Do something and maybe we can save a turkey? It is my hope that if
> enough email is received, this event will be cancelled.
> ======================================================================
> =====
> /`\ /`\ RABBIT INFORMATION SERVICE: _
> _
> (/\ \-/ /\) P.O.Box 30, Riverton, Western Australia 6148
> (.\_/.)
> )6 6( http://www.wantree.com.au/~rabbit/rabbit.htm \6
> 6/
> >{= Y =}< VEGETARIAN PAGE =\
> /=
> /'-^-'\ http://www.geocities/RainForest/4620 /O\
> /
> (_) (_) /
> \ (
> | . | U
> U )
> | |} Pity the human race its illusion of permanence (|
> |)/
> \_/^\_/
> w'-'w
> ======================================================================
> =====
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 06:36:41 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:36:15 EST
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: new participant/reply Ecofem lit/systemic beliefs
In a message dated 98-11-22 22:21:08 EST, you write:
<< It means you do the first and stop trying to force everyone else to do
the second. Joe
>>
Hi!
Ok - there is something I want you to understand about Christianity - the
Spirit wants to be SHARED and understood - (It's a sharing, loving spirit!)
what I was trying to do is share it with you and help you understand the Eco-
crisis from a Christian prespective - so that you can see how wrong a
Christian would see BLAMING God the father for the Eco-crisis really is -
whether you embrace Christianity or not is up to you - AND it always was!
Again, it was about placing blame - and understanding not about embracing -
and me giving you my OK from my Christian prespective blame does not go to God
- it goes to human fallacy - and human misunderstanding - what we need is MORE
divine intervention not less! If you think we need the Goddess (whomever you
say she is) then tell me why? Why would believing in God as Goddess change
the crisis? Because men would suddenly treat woman with more respect out of
fear of retribution from the Goddess? Why not fear God then?
Peace!
Angela
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 06:44:59 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:44:29 EST
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ecosystemic wisdom and systemic beliefs
In a message dated 98-11-22 22:29:52 EST, you write:
<< the poet Shelley said
obedience was the worst sin of humankind. I agree.
Jane
>>
Hi! I believe that it is WHAT we obey that makes all the difference. What
and who we obey! The actual act of obeying is very natural - Nature teaches
us obedience! I can give you many examples - I believe that obeying
something more powerful then you is not only wise but wonderful - it is
showing humility! Now, I agree that some powers that be (corporations) MISUSE
their power - they want obedience to the rules of $ -but God wants the
obedience to the Holy Spirit - the spirit wants us to share, love and honor -
LOVE rules! Money was created as an exchange and has taken on a new identity
as a God - this is the worse crime committed by human - creating a money God!
Obedience to the Spirit is not a crime - it is a must! $ is not a God - Love
is!
Peace!
Angela
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 06:49:44 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:49:28 EST
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ecosystemic wisdom and systemic beliefs/misunderstandings
In a message dated 98-11-22 22:48:49 EST, you write:
<< Among the greatest human fallacies is the blind, fervent and
unbending devotion to destructive dogmas (such as "Go forth and
multiply", "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", and so on). As to
deific gender, the question you pose as to why pagans assert a
feminine nature to divinity is easily turned around; why is it so
important to you that your god be a father? It's the same dime. If it
shouldn't be important to us, it shouldn't be important to you. Joe
- >>
Hi!
You know what is destructive - taking things out of context! The bible says
go forth yes - but the bible also says be careful not to lay brother on
brother - I do not remember the exact saying - but it implies do not crowd
each other in - do not overmultiple - in other words use discretion -
Regarding the witch thing - if God wants all the power - then why does the
witch want power? Explain that to me Joe? Is the power Gods or the witches?
Peace!
Angela
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 06:58:41 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:58:33 EST
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ecosystemic wisdom and systemic beliefs/misunderstandings
In a message dated 98-11-22 22:52:36 EST, you write:
<< Angela,
this is a very powerful statement. You are separating your beliefs from
history, in fact, separating God from history, and saying instead, God has no
involvement in human evolution, evolvement of ideas, or history. I find this
a very fecund affirmation.
Sincerely,'
Jane
>>
Hi!
Regarding mistakes in history and separation from the evils!
There are 2 kinds of wills involved in our past, present and future - they are
huamn FREE WILL and DIVINE WILL - we can have both - how we use our free will
and how we accept and incorporate DIVINE WILL makes all the difference. In
the past, we freely put forth murder in the name of GOD - this was not divine
will - this was free will - in the present we put forth animal slaughter for
glamour sake - this is FREE will this is not divine will - in the future we
should put forth that we are free to be bad but we CHOOSE to be good and we
choose to accept God's will as part of that decision! My opinion!
I exercise free will - I try to be as good as I can be and I accept God's
divine will in my life - knowing that there is a bigger plan - I am just a
strand in this web of life! How I live my strand freely to be good or bad
will make all the difference. Others will be judged by God according to how
they use their free will - I can turn around and be bad - but then what GOOD
would that be!
I am freely good - I am clearly God's!
Peace!
Angela
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 07:14:22 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:14:01 EST
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ecosystemic wisdom and systemic beliefs/misunderstandings
In a message dated 98-11-23 03:59:31 EST, you write:
<< "original" sin so that we will never again have Eden on earth,
but seek it only in heaven. This I do not, personally, buy. It doesn not
fit
my personal view of deity. But I am open to your view that we can have it
both ways, so to speak; if you are right, God the Father has changed his
mind.
but here's what I really think: each of us has a spark of the divine in us,
and collectively, that is "God": father, mother, whoever. We seek him all
our
lives, she speaks to us in many voices. We are the flame-throwers of the
flame; Eden IS us, and you are right: we can make it whole again. It is, in
fact, here now, if we but embraced it. But we must, MUST, come to realize
that these sparks of divinity we carry need to unite in love, the love that
IS
god, before anything can happen. Many seem to me ready for Eden, but
fighting
it with division. Eden is inclusiveness. BUT, drawing lines cancels out the
vision.
>>
Hi!
"original sin" and Eve - When Blessed Mary (a woman - an Eve) said YES to God
- Yes, I will bring the light, the word, the savior to your people - I will
give birth to your son, Jesus - the sins of Eve were wiped out - Mary became
the Eve of our salvation with that act of kindess, that act of obedience -
that purity - that love of God - original sin of Eve was removed - but wait -
not many believe in Mary nor do they honor her as the Eve of our Salvation -
how can this be? Even so-called Christians dismiss her importance to our
salvation from original sin? See the problem Jane - the problem isn't that we
are forever doomed to be without the Garden - the problem is the DIVISION
among those who can actually save Eden - the Christians who do not honor the
Mother of our Salvation - the Queen who can save us and bring back Eden - she
is not honored by the masses! That is the problem - the inclusiviness is
everyone to the Spirit in love and obedience and everyone to honor the Mother
of Salvation as pure to the Spirit -the way we should all be - in oneness and
love!
Peace
Angela
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 07:21:27 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:21:16 EST
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: I'm sorry!
Hi!
I need to apologize - I posted some things to the list - that should have been
posted to the individuals i was replying to. I know I'm doing it again - I
feel so provoked to reply - I will try to curb my replies.
Peace!
Angela
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 08:03:14 1998
From: sarah clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: ecosystemic wisdom and systemic beliefs/misunderstandings
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:10:45 -0500
Sure, we can't blame "god" for male domination, just those who
created god and used this image to create a religion which facilitates
domination. Christianity facilitates patriarchy and capitalism -
systems of "power-over" rather than "power-from-within". Just the
concept itself of an external god contradicts everthing that should be
inherent to our relationships with each other, the Earth, animals, and
all life. It may be a mute point with certain members of this
discussion, but worshiping anything within a framework of a religion
that was created specifically to facilitate a dominating empire will not
liberate the worshiper from the oppressive nature of the system through
which that worship is expressed. Here we go again.
Ecolady Wrote:
> Hi! You CAN'T literatally blame the systemic belief in God the father
> on the
> dominion of woman and nature - you can blame human fallacy - human
> misunderstanding of God's fiduciary role as Father - not as male
> father - but
> as I like to think of it Father Creator as a father in a fiduciary
> responsibility to his children. Now, we are back to blaming God for
> the
> dominion and not man's own need for power and how man has been
> overcome by
> greed and disconnected by nature? We can't really blame God for that!
> God
> clearly did not want us to become power hunger (All the Glory and
> Honor and
> Power is mine said the Lord) God clearly did not want us to become
> greedy -
> Planly because the bible says "The Earth and Everything in it is the
> Lords!"
> Period - that means the soil, the air, the water, the humans, the
> other
> animals, the plants . . . We never owned it - it was our own arrogance
> that
> has caused the Eco-crisis - Chris, you know it! nowhere did God say it
> was OK
> to mistreat woman - the misunderstanding of the systemic belief caused
> the
> problem Chris - not the actual belief! Changing the belief will not
> cure the
> problem! Changing our values and perceptions and understanding of it
> will!
>
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 08:11:45 1998
From: Sarah Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Compassion to the animals!
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:08:02 -0500
I fed my cat vegetarian cat food for the first year of his life. One day -
he brought home a pigeon. It's cruel to make a carnivore into an herbivore.
Cats need meat to be healthy and even though I choose to be a vegetarian, I
can't force my choice on him. So I buy food from the health food store. I
toyed with feeding him vegetarian and letting him hunt for his meat but I
moved across the street from a woman who feeds birds in her front yard and
he eyeballed it like it was a buffet so I feed him meat now to reduce the
carnage.
> ----------
> Sent: November 20, 1998 5:50 PM
> To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
> Subject: Re: Compassion to the animals!
>
>
>
> The ethics of "owning" a pet is something that I have really struggled
> with. For years I resisted my kids' pleas that we needed pets.
>
> This year I caved in when my kids discovered a stray mother cat and her
> kittens living outside a Burger King on a busy road. We took the cats in,
> fed them, wormed them, treated them for fleas, and had them all
> spayed/neutered.
>
> I rationalize the whole thing by saying to myself that the cats have a
> choice -- we let them out and they always come back (mainly because we
> feed them well.) And I really love have cats in the house again. The
> cats seem happy, if you can judge that by how much they snuggle and purr.
>
> But another dilemma .... I am a vegetarian and cat food has MEAT in it.
> So suddenly I am buying meat again. I know for sure that humans don't
> need meat .... but what about cats? Can I give them lentil stew?
>
> Janine
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 12:55:13 1998
From: Donald Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Poem in reply, with thanks for your wisdom
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:54:14 -0600
Hey this is very touching but please remove me from your e-mail list.
P.S. my name is not Joe!!
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 10:22 PM
> To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
> Subject: Poem in reply, with thanks for your wisdom
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> Here's my offering, and my self-introduction; some here have seen it
> before,
> but for the rest of you speakers, here's me:
>
> the Summer of my Enchantment
>
> Prophecy and pictures are stronger than reason,
> and a person can gaze and gaze,
> encountering what they only guessed at,
> like happening on an unremembered lake in an
> unlogged forest,
> searching maps for its name, but not finding it written....
>
> In the city of Dreams, there's an antique bookstore.
> One day, browsing old picture books,
> each like a relic of another life or time,
> you find a photo of a lake you dimly remember,
> and you can't put it down. Your fingers shake just to
> touch it. You inqure the price:
> out of reach!
>
> So you keep returning and gazing, hoping
> for a "sale." Books go on sale, but never that one.
> You ask why, explaining how much you want it;
> the Bookman replies, "everyday people ask for
> this book. It's never on sale."
>
> "The lake, though," he adds, " is really there.
> but it's not in the maps, never documented."
> "Most people," he says, "who inquire, actually
> do know where it is, and have been there. they just can't
> remember the trail, or think they are too old for the journey."
> "If you remember," he told me, "go now,
> and quit looking in picture books."
> "Go, go!", he was nearly shouting.
>
> and that's the reason I'm on an unmarked trail,
> without a map, without a guide,
> but with no thought of returning home.
> I look to the moon and stars for guidance,
> but they just repeat, like the bookman,
> "go, go!"
> I am trying to get there before I can no longer remember.
>
> Blessings, Jane
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Nov 23 17:40:06 1998
From: "Joe E. Dees" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:40:27 -0600
Subject: Re: new participant/reply Ecofem lit/systemic beliefs
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-reply-to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date sent: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:36:15 EST
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: new participant/reply Ecofem lit/systemic beliefs
> In a message dated 98-11-22 22:21:08 EST, you write:
>
> << It means you do the first and stop trying to force everyone else to do
> the second. Joe
> >>
> Hi!
>
> Ok - there is something I want you to understand about Christianity - the
> Spirit wants to be SHARED and understood - (It's a sharing, loving spirit!)
> what I was trying to do is share it with you and help you understand the Eco-
> crisis from a Christian prespective - so that you can see how wrong a
> Christian would see BLAMING God the father for the Eco-crisis really is -
> whether you embrace Christianity or not is up to you - AND it always was!
> Again, it was about placing blame - and understanding not about embracing -
> and me giving you my OK from my Christian prespective blame does not go to God
> - it goes to human fallacy - and human misunderstanding - what we need is MORE
> divine intervention not less! If you think we need the Goddess (whomever you
> say she is) then tell me why? Why would believing in God as Goddess change
> the crisis? Because men would suddenly treat woman with more respect out of
> fear of retribution from the Goddess? Why not fear God then?
>
> Peace!
> Angela
>
>
Screw your sharing spirit! I don't give a rat's ass WHAT it wants,
We don't want to have to read you rambling on interminably about
IT! Shut down your damned proselytizing witnessing on this channel!
