On Wed, 30 Nov 1994, colt wrote: > clearly and do agree, but I wonder, seriously, would you all use > eggs, etc. if you had your own chickens or whatever and let them > range about and didn't cut off their beaks (or horns) and pump them > full of steroids? I eat almost no meat products, primarily because I would, and I have even bought eggs from biodynamic/organic farms with free-ranging chickens. I have bought yogurt made from milk of similar settings. Joel >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Nov 30 20:11:33 MST 1994 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 22:14:59 -0500 (EST) From: Swarr Amanda Lock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: vegans To: Wainwright Joel David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, 30 Nov 1994, Wainwright Joel David wrote: > > > On Wed, 30 Nov 1994, colt wrote: > > > clearly and do agree, but I wonder, seriously, would you all use > > eggs, etc. if you had your own chickens or whatever and let them > > range about and didn't cut off their beaks (or horns) and pump them > > full of steroids? I eat almost no meat products, primarily because > > I would, and I have even bought eggs from biodynamic/organic farms with > free-ranging chickens. I have bought yogurt made from milk of similar > settings. > > Joel > i guess i am a skeptic, but i question the legitimacy of such farms. i agree with brian in that i would want to see the animals for myself to determine my opinions about their treatment. it seems that free range eggs, biodynamic yogurt, etc. would necessitate conditions that would very likely involve cruelty and/or discomfort to animals such as transporting large quantities of chickens or cows in trucks and/or planes, forcing them to live in areas that they might not choose for themselves (eg using fences), generally requiring the animals to rely on humans for their needs, etc... all of which is to say although i support this type of endeavor more than i would support factory farms, i certainly have my doubts and i feel that ideally if i were to eat animal products (discluding the flesh of animals), i would want to be positive of their conditions (ie if they were living with me). also, i think in ideal circumstances that my body can thrive and be more healthy than that of an omnivore eating strictly plant products. i try to buy local products (including produce) as much as possible, so i end up eating canned beans, grains, etc. in the winter, although it can get a little boring compared to what i was raised on (eg fresh produce from all over the world throughout the year). all of which is not to say that i am perfect and never stray from this ideal path - i do! just thought i would share!! just doing my best, amanda >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Nov 30 20:47:44 MST 1994 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 22:50:12 -0500 (EST) From: Goddess of Disco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: vegans To: Swarr Amanda Lock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I too agree with Brian, and Amanda, that we need to be skeptical of farms that claim to be "humane" in their treatment of animals. That is not to say that there aren't any legit operations--I'm sure there are. But it's hard to say how strictly such operations are regulated (if at all?). I also agree with Amanda that, because we are healthier for being vegans, that the choice makes logical sense (to me, anyway). I would like to someday, perhaps, have a small farm where I can keep animals that have been rescued from farms, slaughter operations, etc. (sick, wounded animals, etc.). In fact, if anyone has any info about how one would go about doing this, let me know. A friend of mine is planning the same thing, amd she knows more about it than I do, but the more info, the better. Anyway, in my personal opinion, I'm not sure that it's my priveledge or right to decide how an animal is to be used. Until a chicken can say, "sure, you can have some eggs," or a cow says, "feel free to slaughter and consume me," I will refrain from eating or using animal products. I realize not everyone on the list agrees with this, and I'm not trying to start an argument (one which none of us will win, anyway). Just sharing my thoughts. By the way, one of my gerbils died this past week (no, I didn't buy them in a pet store--I found them abandoned outside a few summers ago, beleive it or not), and the change in the surviving one's behavior is heartbreaking. While the one was dying, his brother kept trying to clean him and lie next to him. Now he's sleeping a lot more, and hasn't quite been himself. It just kills me. And to think gerbils were once (still are?) used in lab experiments. Does anyone know if PeTA has felt enough pressure to stop using half-naked women in their campaigns? Lori
