I work in the alumni office of a prominent law firm, and we address *all*
our letters to our alumnae as Ms. A woman has to call us or write us to
specify that she wants to be addressed as Mrs. and *no one* not a
single one is Miss. In the attorney world, at least in the major
cities, it would be a major insult to be referred to as Miss. When they
get married, the women usually remain with their maiden name as their
professional name. In the offices I have worked in--all sorts of
non-profits--women are always formally addressed as Ms. It's amazing to
me to hear of areas where people think the form is dead! Not in my
life! In personal life, people seem to use Mrs. more when they are with
their spouses at an event: as in, Mr. and Mrs. X.
BTW, Hillary Rodham Clinton during the *campaign* went by Hillary
Clinton, and once in the White House went back to being named Hillary
Rodham Clinton. In the New York Times, Boston Globe, San Fran
Chronicle, I say that and just chuckled. I think it's great. When
referred to by just her last name, though, its Mrs. Clinton. And as
First Lady, in a way this seems to make sense--essentially, this *is* a
position that she holds by virtue of being married to someone.
I remember taking French and discovering that Mademoiselle literally
means "half a lady"--you're not real until your married, eh?
I'd love to
comment on the diet vegan/veg/meat-eating debate, but I've got to work!
Jennifer B. Norris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 13:28:23 MST 1995
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:28:00 -0800 (PST)
From: gretchen hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: responding to clearcuts
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950330082727.19323D-100000@case>
On Thu, 30 Mar 1995, Faith Freewoman wrote:
> How many of you can drive by a clearcut area and NOT feel the pain?
>
> Faith
>
It's so reassuring to know that there is someone else out there.
The hills around where I lived have changed so much in just the last
four years that I am often completely overwhelmed by the giant scars on the
hillsides as I look at them. I often get this sick, twisting, wrenching
feeling in my stomach and just feel all the strength drained from me when
I see them. I've found myself verbally apologizing to the forest and
then wondering if I've completely lost it and am getting a
little carried away. And yet, try as I might to be rational about it, I
can't sometimes. It just hurts too much.
Thank you Faith for letting me know I am not alone in my
response. Some might think it madness on my part, but I think the
real madness is among those who don't realize what they are doing when
they abuse the land like that.
~Gretchen /\
//\\
||
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 14:05:07 MST 1995
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 14:05:05 1995
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From: "Blanche Clegg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: Southern Utah University
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:05:27 MST7MDT
Subject: Re: 25 Years After Earth Day (Press Release)
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Priority: normal
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Wish I could be in Washington for Earth Day. Are there any big
events planned other places? In the West, maybe? Blanche
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 14:38:43 MST 1995
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 14:38:42 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 16:39:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Bertina Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: animal vs. plant food discussion
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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What a good persuasive argument for abortion-i.e., as population control!
Bertina Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 30 Mar 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I find myself in agreement with many of the
> ecologically-based points that have been made about the
> impact of eating plants (at the base of the trophic
> pyramid) as opposed to animals (somewhere higher in the
> pyramid, depending on the animal: cows [herbivores] are
> low; tuna [top carnivores] are VERY high -- raising different
> types of concerns about pesticide bioaccumulation, energy
> loss through the pyramid, etc.).
>
> I'd like to point out, however, that plant foods are
> not uniform in terms of the relative degree to which their
> eploitation by people impacts on the rest of the biological world.
> Take orange juice, for example: because of our voracious appetite
> for this commodity (including consumption by many vagans??), more
> than 90% of all the xeric scrub habitat in Florida has been
> obliterated in just the last 50 years -- including destruction by
> individual owners of "mom 'n' pop" groves, as well as corporations.
> This has resulted in the extinction or endangerment of many
> organisms endemic (unique to) the scrub ecosystem -- the biologically
> richest community, in terms of including organisms found nowhere
> else on the planet, in the lower 48 states outside of California.
>
> IMHO, the root problem, ultimately, is too many people, period.
> Ecologists estimate that we ALREADY consume close to 25% of all the
> biological productivity (i.e., biologically collected solar energy)
> over the entire planet. If our population continues to grow
> exponentially, no shift in our diet from animal to plant will reduce
> this impact -- it could only slow the rate of further devastation
> (obviously better than no change from the status quo, but not
> sufficient in the long run to prevent the current wave of
> anthropogenic extinction).
>
> -- R L Curry
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 14:41:58 MST 1995
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 14:41:53 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 16:41:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Bertina Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Faith Freewoman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Eat plants or animals?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950330082727.19323D-100000@case>
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Hysterical! Im so glad I ride a bike and dont own a car!
Bertina Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 30 Mar 1995, Faith Freewoman wrote:
> How many of you can drive by a clearcut area and NOT feel the pain?
>
> Faith
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 14:55:04 MST 1995
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 14:55:03 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 09:54:39 +1200
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Miss, Ms and Mrs.
To: Multiple recipients of list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Kameshwari S. Pothukuchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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In NZ, I think maybe we're dropping the Mrs/Miss/Ms title a bit. Afterall
isn't the "title" rather poxy? Our opposition leader is Helen Clark and I
can't recall ever having heard her referred to as Ms/Mrs Clark (but I think
if anything it would be Ms.). For example on National Radio, journalists
say "and what do you think Helen Clark?...". However with our Jim Bolger
(prime minister), it is usually "Mr Bolger"...
BTW Jim is in the States at the moment. He's nearly wet his pants
with excitement because he got to meet "Mr" Clinton. It didn't make
American TV though. We fell out with the US about 10 years ago over
nuclear issues -we wouldn't let US warships into our ports- and now
we're nearly friends again, except for one little matter,(according to
some defence bigwig over there). I assume that this means we're still
expected to tow the line and change our nuclear free stance -but I
think that that would happen over Jim's dead body.
Anyway, back to the Ms/ topic, I think as more and more women are choosing not
to take their partner's name on marriage, that the term Ms is becoming more
commonplace. Many teachers don't change their name when they get married and Ms
is now a common title in our schools. I think in higher business positions that
women tend to call themselves and be called "Ms", but more often as (eg.) Mary
Jones with no title. Similary, at university, we tended to call our lecturers
(male and female) by their first names; no Mr/Ms/Miss/Mrs, but sometimes Dr or
Prof.
There are still many instances where to get use of the term Ms is a battle.
It's usually where "old school" oldish men (and women too) are in control. Ie.
law firms. It's the same the trades areas like plumbers, locksmiths but I find
this personally more excusable because I think the people in these cases don't
generally know about the politics of the words. An example of the media
influence is the Otago Daily times -a major paper in the Country. They refuse
to use Ms. because they're deeply conservative. A friend was interviewed by
them and she is married but goes by her birth surname "Wakelin". Through the
whole article they actually referred to her as "Dinah Wakelin" but at the very
end they had to say "Miss Wakelin" -which is so dumb!
Who needs a title anyway, I would rather be called Lisa Te Morenga (and properly
prounounced too, by NZers anyway).
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Miss, Ms and Mrs.
Author: "Kameshwari S. Pothukuchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> at tawa
Date: 30/3/95 7:23 AM
Yeah, Faith and Carol, I have wondered about the Ms/Mrs usage especially
when it comes to referring to women in high places -- business or
politics. I am sure everyone has noticed how the first lady is always
referred to as
Mrs Clinton. Same with Mrs Thatcher, etc. Now, I am not sure if it is
the media that has "respectfully" decided to use this term, or if it is
the women themselves who have stated preference for the term, or if it is
the bureaucrats surrounding these people that make this decision. It
seems to me that Ms is just another form of Miss, and has not been used
to refer to woman, married or unmarried... What do people think?
Kami Pothukuchi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 15:18:35 MST 1995
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 15:18:35 1995
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re[2]: Eat plants or animals?
To: Multiple recipients of list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Faith Freewoman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I can.
I'm a forester and when I drive past a planted, plantation forest I
feel quite awed by the way the earth has been unclothed and how you
can see the shape that the land really is. Then over the next few
years you can watch the newly planted trees growing and the scar of
the clearcut gets softened, and eventually there's a new forest and
new undergrowth. And then the cycle begins again.
I know that this must seem awful, short-sighted, narrow minded etc to
some/most/all of you, but that's the way I feel. At the same time, I
do like the operations to be continually striving for minimal impact
and minising side effects such as watershed damage, erosion, silting
of streams, damage of soil systems. I don't like burning slash,
logging in the wet seasons, chemical pollution etc. Plantation
forests to me mean that the pressure is taken off our much more
majorly unsustainable world resources such as indigenous forests and
the rainforests and wood is an alternative to materials that are even
more energy intensive in production such as concrete and steel. And
trees are better than fields. I know that production forestry is not
really a good thing, but it's a better thing, like preferring fields
of soyabeans to fields of cows.
I admit, that the clearfelling of native trees makes me feel pain
though but at least we are not allowed to clear-cut native forest
anymore except in a small instance where I think the social situation
surrounding the clear-cutting is an important consideration. But I
still don't support the clearfelling of our Rimu and Beech.
Lisa Te Morenga.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Eat plants or animals?
Author: Faith Freewoman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> at tawa
Date: 30/3/95 9:30 AM
How many of you can drive by a clearcut area and NOT feel the pain?
Faith
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 18:27:45 MST 1995
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 18:27:44 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 20:28:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Jayne S Docherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: gretchen hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: responding to clearcuts
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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On Thu, 30 Mar 1995, gretchen hughes wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Mar 1995, Faith Freewoman wrote:
>
> > How many of you can drive by a clearcut area and NOT feel the pain?
> It's so reassuring to know that there is someone else out there.
> The hills around where I lived have changed so much in just the last
> four years that I am often completely overwhelmed by the giant scars on the
> hillsides as I look at them. I often get this sick, twisting, wrenching
> feeling in my stomach and just feel all the strength drained from me when
> I see them.
I made my first visit to the Pacific Northwest 2 years ago. When I was
out on a boat off the coast and looked back at the land, I felt
physically ill when I saw the clearcuts. Also when I drove from Portland
to San Fran through the mountains, I had the same response. I think most
people from the rest of country have no idea what kind of carnage we are
talking about... It was one of the reasons I chose conflicts over
the implementation of ecosystem management as the specific area of research
focus for my dissertation... There is a real danger that ecosystem mgt
will be just another name for old practices... and if we don't "get it
right" this time, it is probably too late...
Jayne
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 19:02:56 MST 1995
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 30 19:02:55 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 21:03:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Jayne S Docherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Coyote1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Earth as Mother/Spirituality
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Coyote1 wrote:
> I'm wondering if some of us (me included to be sure) aren't heading
> toward forming a self congratulatory mutual admiration society and
> alienating or somehow excluding others on the list? The two public
> resignations from the list yesterday make me wonder. Whatever we call
> ourselves, it's the goal we're seeking that's important - no, crucial.
Sometimes public resignations are just because people forget how to
resign... But your point is well taken...
> As I see it, this support group could (as well as discussing metaphors
> and semantics) could be a place of exchange of practical day-to-day ideas
> and moral support for all of us in this struggle. For example, Bertina
> could give us a problem she encountered today that has her at a loss and
> we all could give her ideas that have worked for us. Or, if I can't get
> to a library and need a citation, I could request it online and if
> someone knows the answer I could get it.
I think that would be a great idea. It would make the list a place where:
1. Reflection on actions is welcome,
2. The strength of shared reflection and brainstorming can be
experiened, and
3. We can find common threads in our actions even where there are
differences in belief.
Jayne
