Stan... It is illegal in MI to have any native reptiles or amphibians in captivity.
I am well aware of permits, etc. in working with raptors and birds in general, as I have been banding since '85. I think you would be surprised at permits needed to work with reptiles if you are still referring to Irwin (which you are). With regards to mugging it up with birds. People do it all the time. See: http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=912 or http://tinyurl.com/52ydx Mike Nolan Call weekdays, evenings and weekends. Leave your phone number/best time to return your call and/or your e-mail address if we are on another line or away from our phones. Sincerely, J. Michael Nolan, Director Rainforest and Reef 501 (c)(3) non-profit ************************************************************************************ "Outstanding-Affordable Field Courses in Rainforest & Marine Ecology" "Spanish Immersion offered in Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Panama, Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru" Web: http://iwanttolearnspanish.org (being updated for 07) United States: Rainforest and Reef 501 (c)(3) non-profit P.O. Box 141543 Grand Rapids, Michigan 49514-1543 USA Phone: 1.616.604.0546 Toll Free: 1.877.255.3721 Skype Phone: mikenolan1 Live Chat and Phone MS Live Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Live Chat AOL: buddythemacaw E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.rainforestandreef.org Latin America: P.O. Box 850-1150 San José, Costa Rica, Central America Att: Juan Pablo Bello C. Program Director, Latin America Phone: 011.506.290.8883/011.506.822.8222 (Cell)/Fax: 011.506.290.8883 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Europe: Att: Marion Stephan Frankfurt, Germany Phone: 011.49.172.448.3899 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ************************************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: "stan moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:15 PM Subject: herps vs birds -- evolution and human culture > Friends -- I am a raptor guy, not a herp guy, though I did inadvertently > rescue a gopher snake once from a red-tailed hawk because the hawk saw me > and dropped its uninjured prey and flew off while I took a moment to > photograph and admire the snake. And I have found many snake skeletons > under hawk nest tree;: I believe that hawks pick the meat off the bones > and > often discard the entire skeleton with ribs often intact to the ground > below > the nests. One other connection between me and herps is that I visit the > East Bay Vivarium in Berkeley, CA occasionally to obtain feeder mice (they > sell dark brown, natural looking "jumbos") for raptor trapping and I enjoy > the incredible collection of all sorts of snakes, lizards, tortoises, etc. > and at emporium of herpetological commerce. > > And that brings me to an observation or two -- I believe it is correct > for > me to saw that possession of some native herps is legal, even in > California. > Whereas it is illegal to possess (without special permits, such as > falconry, rehab, banding, etc.) any native bird including raptors in > California or other states. > > When I hold a captive red-tailed hawk which I may have trapped for > falconry > or for banding, I always feel and sense the reptilian ancestry of those > birds. Scaly legs, reptilian head shape, talons like giant toenails, > etc., > really make me see that I am holding or interacting with a product of > evolution that held reptiles as evolutionary ancestors of these big birds. > Yet no one, including the government, cares if I hold a fence lizard > without > a permit, but if I were to capture a hawk without a permit, or on an > expired > permit without awareness that the permit had expired, I could be subject > to > prosecution. In fact, the local game warden did attempt to prosecute me > once for banding raptors on an expired scientific collecting permit, but > the > court threw out the case because the evidence showed (in my view) that I > was > unaware that the permits had expired after the same game warden had > investigated me and (mistakenly) told me my papers were in good order. > > In Australia, falconry is completely illegal. An Australian teenage kid > cannot obtain a native raptor and fly it at game. In the U.S. there is a > minimum age for beginning falconry, but once that age is reached, if you > obtain a permit you can trap a wild kestrel or red-tailed hawk and start > off > a career as an apprentice falconer. > > Why do we have the disconnect between possession of reptiles versus birds? > Some of it is no doubt to the fact that in prior generations there was a > feather trade in wild birds, and protection laws were written to take > commercialism away as a threat to wild birds. > > But, somehow I have to suspect that there is also a disconnect in the > cultural attitudes towards reptiles versus birds. People relate to birds, > relate to the beauty of birds, and thus want to prevent other people from > possessing or harrassing birds, including momentary possession such as > capture for the sake of admiration. > > Reptiles seem to be lesser regarded. Sometimes they are feared, but many > peopl, including young kids, know the difference between threatening > species and non-threatening ones. When I was about ten years old and > living with my familiy in the Houston, Texas suburb of Deer Park I caught > a > wild hog-nosed snake and made a pet of it. I named him "Dennis" and I > caught frogs to feed him and I kept Dennis till I got tired of him and > eventually let him go back into the vacant field across the street from > where I lived. I knew which snakes were poisonous and which ones were > not-- > that is why when I saw our little six year old neighbor John David > carrying > a small snake which turned out to be a coral snake (red/yellow kills a > fellow) I got him to quickly let the snake go and John David was not > bitten > by it despite it curling around in his fingers. > > What would I think if I saw a television show from some other country > where > someone like me went around the world trapping raptors or invading their > nests and mugging for the camera while displaying them for kids to enjoy > and > admire? What if it were perfectly legal to do so? If there was a talent > search for someone to perform in such a show I might be the perfect > candidate because I have a huge amount of experience in raptor trapping at > all times of year, with many types of traps and many species that I > suspect > relatively few people in the world can match. But I think I would have to > turn it down, even if it stood to make me millions of dollars and made > people think I was a heroic conservationist. And I would not do it with > snakes or reptiles either, though some people obviously still do and a > visit > to the television program guide proves it. > > But I am just talking me and snakes and birds. Other people will do what > they will and justify it within the parameters of their own culture and > belief systems. It intrigues me though, that so many people are very > protective of birds and not so much of their reptilian forebears. > > > Cheers! > > Stan Moore San Geronimo, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
