On older students--Advisors might actually be tempted to discriminate (if that is the word) in favor of more mature (in all senses of the word) individuals applying to grad school. Older folks would presumably have had previous careers that they would have to sacrifice to go to grad school, demonstrating a level of commitment and thought not always present in some just out of college. Older folks might bring experience to the party that would make them less of a challenge to mentor and they might even do some mentoring of their own within a lab. Of course, some advisors might see that as a threat, but I suspect many would see it as a good deal.
Overall, you can't generalize, it depends on individual advisors and departmental cultures.--David Duffy At 09:51 AM 11/2/2006 -0800, Dave Thomson wrote: >As a man with an MS, who is also approaching 40, and also contemplating >a PhD, I would be interested in answers regarding "age discrimination". >Although I am nowhere near old enough to garner the support of the AARP, >the EEOC does state that The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of >1967 (ADEA)" protects individuals who are 40 years of age or older from >employment discrimination based on age." >http://www.eeoc.gov/types/age.html > >Since most PhD programs also include a job, then if you are 40+ they >cannot discriminate against you. I hope institutions would follow the >spirit of the law and not discriminate against people in their 30s >either... > >Now, regarding gender discrimination, I believe institutions need to >remember not only is the world what we make of it, but that employee >costs are complex relationships that apparently defy simple logic. >Those who merely analyze the surface of the external cost/benefits of >employing women fail to appreciate the depth of the relationship. For >example, you could easily state that there is a cost associated with >maternity leave. But that one component of the relationship does not >trump the remainder; in fact it is not an overriding concern. > >I base these comments on part to a bit of European news that I happened >to catch on the airplane on one of my rare overseas trips. The spot was >highlighting European companies who were not only offering female >employees "extended" maternity leave (in the US sense - US maternity >leave is a cruel joke; in Canada, families are offered approximately 1 >year, with a full right of return) - but they were also catering to >employees with families. > >By catering I mean they were not only allowing the usual flex time so >that parents could more easily organize their days, but also they were >offering FREE day care onsite! You simply drop off your child after you >come in the door to work, then you can have lunch with your child, or >even sneak a peek while your coworkers are out smoking. For those who >juggle work and children, just imagine all of the benefits for parents! >And you should have seen these day care centers - wow. What these >companies had found was the benefits from these expenditures far >outweighed their costs. Benefits included lower employee turnover and >higher worker productivity, which have grossly underappreciated costs. > >That said, I contemplate moving to Canada for this and other reasons. >As a parent it seems odd that I pay someone quite a bit of money to >spend more time with my child than I get to... I certainly would >appreciate the catering discussed above. > > >David Thomson > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kristina Pendergrass >Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 6:22 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: gender issues in ecology > >As someone with an MS, who hopes to still get her doctorate, I find >there >is either a real or perceived stigma against women with regard to >beginning a family. Since a woman has to spend some number of months >incapacitated due to the late stages of pregnancy and the early stages >of >childcare, it seems her only choice is to pursue a doctorate first (and >have kids possibly late in life) or to begin a family before beginning a >doctorate. > >Because my husband is 7 years older than I am, and because I finished my >MS when I was 26, I am opting to start a family now, when the risk of >Down's syndrome and other age-related complications is reduced. > >What I would like to ask the group is whether, in your experience, older >women (e.g. age 40) are less likely to be accepted into PhD programs >than >students having just finished their BS or MS? I would dearly like to >pursue a PhD (ecology is my passion!!), but I worry that my age at the >time will prove a hindrance. > >Please feel free to email me at my email address (vs. replies to the >group); I can compile results for anyone interested. > >Thank you. Sincerely, > >Kristina Pendergrass >Research Associate, >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >College of Veterinary Medicine >Auburn University, AL 36849 >334.844.5574 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "David Inouye" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Career advice for scientists: the X-gals alliance > > Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:36:07 -0500 > > > > > > I'm hoping that women in ecology aren't facing all the > > gender-specific barriers mentioned here: > > > > http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2006/10/2006100201c/careers.html > > > . . .and some certain significance lurks in all things, else all things are little worth, and the round little world itself but an empty cipher, except to sell by the cartload, as they do hills about Boston, to fill up some morass in the Milky Way. --Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851. David Cameron Duffy Professor of Botany and Unit Leader Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit (PCSU) University of Hawai`i 3190 Maile Way St. John 410 Honolulu, HI 96822-2279 (808) 956-8218 phone (808) 956-4710 (new) fax / (808) 956-3923 (backup fax) email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
