A previous poster mentioned that women were actually dominant in her conservation biology program, but are much less common in more theoretical fields. My own informal observations agree with this.
This leads me to wonder about the role of math in the underrepresentation of women in certain fields. The old stereotypes about women not being able to do well in math are still out there, and a recent study published in Science showed that exposure to fake scientific evidence that gender differences in math performance are genetic lowered womens' performance on a math test. And, while one *can* be a very good ecologist without doing any math, it helps to be able to at least understand theoretical papers. Furthermore, I wonder about the importance of modeling/theoretical work to professional advancement. Supporting students (women and men) in learning the math they need, especially as they take their first college-level classes, may, in the long run, help advance gender equity. Jane Shevtsov gary grossman wrote: > It is unfortunate that Ms. Lahey generalizes from her own very negative > personal experiences to the whole field of fisheries, and she is not > the only one who has done so in this thread. Do I think that there are > sexist individuals in science who will use whatever power they have to > enforce their distorted views (like her undergraduate advisor), > certainly. Do I think that fish ecology or fisheries as a field is full > of gender bias -- well consider this fact, both the president elect and > current president of the American Fisheries Society are female as was > the president two years ago (that's 3 out of 4 for you non-quantitative > folks <g>). Frankly, if one took the general population of AFS members > and calculated the percentage that are women you certainly would > conclude that AFS is doing a great job combating gender bias by electing > women to the highest office in the society, way out of proportion to > their frequency in the society. Similarly, I have had only four female > PhD students, less than half as many as my male PhD students - evidence > of gender bias - I doubt it. > > Are there fewer fisheries female faculty than are represented in the > grad student population as a whole -- I don't know but I will agree with > Ms. Lahey that there are not enough female role models in most of the > "applied sciences"? What can we do about this, well we can seek out > well qualified female/minority/gay/group of your choice students and > provide them with a supportive and stimulating atmosphere so that they > can reach their potential. Frankly, that's what most of my colleagues > and collaborators are doing. Ms. Lahey is right that we need to start > doing this at the undergraduate level, rather than at the graduate > school level. I have to admit though, that the description of fisheries > that Ms. Lahey provides is quite foreign to the one that I work in. > > As for the general topic, I guess that at this point in my career I'm > more interested in what I can do as an individual, or how we can help > each other solve these problems via our professional activities rather > than make general accusations regarding "discrimination of your choice" > in science, with frankly, little evidence other than our own personal > experiences. These are difficult and complex issues, but they're not > ones that I'm really interested in researching. Instead, I'd rather > make my own personal contributions to combating these ills, which > includes intervention in cases where discrimination is occurring within > my sphere of influence. Sign a petition, sure, go to a demonstration, > maybe, but I just feel that I'm having more of an impact by trying to > train students from under-represented groups, which actually is quite > difficult given the level of competition for these students if they're > well qualified (and that includes women). > > Frankly, if a faculty member at our university displayed the behavior > that Ms. Lahey's advisor did, then they would be in big trouble very > quickly, and I can't really imagine this being a pattern and other > faculty standing by and doing nothing. In addition, I've never been on > a search committee in which "under-represented groups" wasn't brought up > as a point of consideration, even though it is now illegal. Of course > here I am just using my own personal experiences, but the point is to > show students that Ms. Lahey's description of the field,while apparently > accurate for her, is not accurate for many of us. Oh, and yes I had a > letter writer who sabotoged me on a few graduate school letters, but my > advisor apparently saw through the letter writer's attempts (as did > someone in another program) because I got in. In fact anyone who's been > in the field for awhile has some sort of similar story to tell - i.e., > getting screwed on reviews, promotions, etc. Frankly, not everyone is > nice in academia, nor even ethical, but I doubt that the frequency of > this behavior is any different from behavior found in many professions. > > I am writing this response so that people, especially female undergrads, > who are not familiar with fisheries will not be left with only one > point of view on the field. I don't really want to debate the subject, > and as one recent poster said -- let's work to solve these things not > just complain about them. > > cheers, g2 >
