To address Bill Silvert's point that "women on the list have been describing their experiences, [...] the men are trying to identify the scope of the problem and talk about what can be done about it" And what a cliché this is, no? But lets go on.
Women have been describing their experiences because for the most part only they can provide the data first hand when addressing gender bias against females - which was the topic under discussion. I have actually learned quite a bit since the beginning of this discussion (especially through 1-on-1 exchanges) about how much discrimination women have experienced and are experiencing. It seems, as expected, that the bulk of it (at least the most overt discrimination) happens during the most vulnerable stages (grad and postdoc). And that leads me to want to know "What can be done about it?" Are there established channels at Universities and other similar institutions to address for example cases in which advisors are being sexist and creating a very difficult environment to female students? What should a sympathetic faculty do? Should we advise students to talk to the Department Chair? Should the sympathetic faculty confront the advisor? Are students informed of their options? I am in a small non-for-profit organization and we have very clear discrimination and harassment rules as well as guidelines. In case of discrimination we need to (1) document, best if you find a witness or someone that will come forward with similar issues; (2) talk to Human Resources. And all staff has to attend information sections. I am pretty sure that is true in the corporate world too. But is there a similar structure in Academic Institutions? Is there something like a Human Resources office for students? I feel this is particularly complicated because a graduate student's research as well a postdoc's is often closely intertwined to that of the advisor. Please send advise and ideas. I will be happy to post a summary at the end. Thanks, Dina On 11/6/06 9:02 AM, "William Silvert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have the feeling that we have run into a dead end in this discussion. As > Cara Lin points out, women on the list have been describing their > experiences, but I think the men are trying to identify the scope of the > problem and talk about what can be done about it. Given that some women have > complained of extreme bias while others have praised supportive advisors, I > really do not come away from this with a sense of how widespread the problem > is, whether there are a few very bad universities or whether they are almost > all dens of evil, except for a handful (or maybe just the odd good person in > the mix). > > In the second paragraph of the posting below is a good example of the sort > of statement that makes some of us automatically guilty -- I have also noted > the dominance of non-white students in some classes. In fact, I used to > teach at a US university located close to an urban ghetto, and although > there were many black students in the introductory classes, some from the > neighbourhood and some from Africa, the local students were almost all > functionally iliterate, while the Africans were mostly the product of top > British schools. The Africans moved up while many of the US blacks left, > despite many remedial programs. There was certainly racial bias in the > educational system, but I don't really feel that it was working at the > university level. > > Still, statistics don't lie, and we are all guilty as charged. I guess we > leave it at that and don't try to fix the system. > > Bill Silvert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cara Lin Bridgman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 5:24 AM > Subject: Re: gender bias: a summary of ecolog-L responses > > >> Thank you, Anita, for this summary. I was noticing the same pattern: >> the women describing their experience and the men classifying this >> experience as anecdotal and asking for studies. Where there are >> studies, I appreciate seeing them. When each generation of women >> scientists experiences bias, however, it is hard to see what the studies >> do, other than prove the bias is still there and that each woman's >> experience is not idiosyncratic to her alone. >> >> I am white, but I have also noticed race bias. In my studies in the US >> from college through Ph.D., non-white classmates were from other >> countries. In Taiwan, aborigines are almost missing from biology >> programs. >> >> CL -- Dina M. Fonseca, Ph.D. Assistant Curator Academy of Natural Sciences 1900 Ben Franklin Parkway Philadelphia, PA 19103 Phone: (215) 299 1177 (1195 lab) Fax: (215) 299 1182 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
