Get to know me better before accusing me of being "blasé'" on the subject. Read my posts, too. I haven't argued AGAINST more public outreach, and I think my running (hosting) of the Virginia list in the AIBS/NCSE network shows that I do more than just "talk" about the problem.
The topic was presented as if we are facing a crisis because of this "new" "peer-reviewed" journal. I'm just pointing out a fact -- journals such as this have been around a long time. Most of the public does not read these journals, nor do they care to. The impact of this journal, like it's predecessor, and at least one similar journal still in existence, is nil. More damage is done by people like a certain president who profess "faith" in scientific concepts they really don't know anything about, by political leaders (especially school board members) that exploit religion for earthly power, and by poorly trained news media that parrot the most inane nonsense under the guise of presenting "both" sides of an issue. If you want to get worked up, get worked up about real problems. This journal ain't one of them. I've been fighting this battle a long damn time -- since the equal-time law was introduced in Louisiana in the 1980s. I think I've got a pretty good handle on the issue, thank you. Dave ------------------------------------------------------ David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] USA | http: http://fuzzo.com ------------------------------------------------------ "We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo "No trespassing 4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Decker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:59 AM To: David M. Lawrence; [email protected] Subject: Re: Inaugural Call for Papers for the International Journal of Creation Research (IJCR). I am tossed between being confused and being happy by the heat of this discussion-hey....at least it makes things interesting. But I am confused by the blase' attitude of Dave. Dave, no one is saying the world is coming to an end here....you are confusing Jim with the creationists on this point. Yes, there was a journal before, but let's look at what has happened as as a consequence of creationism (and ID's) srtive for scientific status. We had school boards across the country trying to weaken the high school science curriculum by adding labels to textbooks and teaching creationism along the side of evolution as accepted theories. Think about the shortage of high school science teachers, will any of the spots be filled by graduates from this "program" in very religious districts? The only way this would not happen is with public eduation-so the parents and board members will take exception it it. Jim's point is valid that we need more outreach to the public. What percentage of Americans 'believe' in evolution? My recollection is that percentage is woefully low. That is the underlying point here. If you have ever heard Naomi Oreskes' talk about the history of GW denial, you will realize that the disinformation campaigns are powerful and effective. After all, it is much easier and cheaper to refute the science of others than to do one's own research. I am sure you have heard the same old "scientific-sounding" refutations of evolution over and over again. Whatever we are doing now, it isn't enough. I am glad that we had success in Dover, but we need more. Just my 2 cents. At 04:34 AM 5/3/2007, David M. Lawrence wrote: >Uh, Jim, do some research before you accuse others of being somnolent. >I happen to be the Virginia coordinator for the AIBS/NCSE Evolution >List Server Network >(http://www.aibs.org/mailing-lists/the_aibs-ncse_evolution_list_server. >html) >. > >The ICR has done this before -- the old journal was just as >peer-reviewed as this one will be. The new journal, like the old one, >will be hailed by "true" believers, treated as a source of amusement >(along with Weekly World >News) by some, and ignored by most. > >Most people can do some math, and given that we have tree-ring, varve, >and glacial chronologies far older than the good Bishop Ussher >estimated the Earth to be, those people, upon reading the mission >statement of the journal, will be skeptical. > >As I remember -- only a few hours ago -- I didn't say that scientists >need not work to educate the public about the ways of science. What I >did say was that the ICR did this at least once before, 20-something >years ago, and the world DID NOT come to an end. > >Dave > >------------------------------------------------------ > David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786 > 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 > Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > USA | http: http://fuzzo.com <http://fuzzo.com/> >------------------------------------------------------ > >"We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo > >"No trespassing > 4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan > > > > >________________________________ > >From: Jim Sparks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 7:22 AM >To: David M. Lawrence >Cc: [email protected] >Subject: Re: Inaugural Call for Papers for the International Journal of >Creation Research (IJCR). > > >Okay the point is, this IS going to happen so, WHEN it is published it >is going to further confuse the public who already have a justifiably >shaky opinion of science due to the very anemic defense that scientists >themselves have offered in the past on this and other issues related to credibility. > >If you take the time to follow the link you will find that ICR is >fielding an entire graduate school for young earth creationism. >Students at that "school" will be trained thoroughy in a gigantic >bullshit story that perpetuates one of the most dangerous political >lies of our time, namely "Biblical innerrancy". Now any of you who >have ever deigned to read the Bibe should realize that it does not turn >out with a very happy ending for most of us. > >My contention is that "we" scientists will not mount much of a defense >here because "we" are so smarmy about science and our lovely ivory >tower, meanwhile the general public will go on saying things like >"Well, tests show that this drug X (which has a littany of fatalities) >was tested at at corporate sponsored university and it sure looks safe" >or "Oh those crazy scientists never agree on global warming." Well, >now they can use this ICR journal to discount even basic evolution in >the increasingly under educated general public mind. > >Big Pharma: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020805/newman20020725 >Big Oil: >http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/ExxonMobil-GlobalWarming-tobac >co.ht >ml > >Would one of you PhD's please get up off your keister and do something >about this, or at least consider it. There should be some resistance to this. >This perpetutaes a paradigm that is not based on reality at all and it >will affect public opinion, if only by further undermining the >scientific method, regardless of the fact that none of us wil buy it. > >We are in many ways the intellectual vanguards of society and we >continue to shirk the responsibility we have to the public when money >or controversy are involved. > >I can't believe the two responses so far have accused me of >collaborating with creationists or entirely dismiss the idea that this >endeavor would undermine scientific methodology. Go ahead and rest on >your laurels but don't complain when even the more educated public >starts to get confused about the value of "peer review". > >Criminy! In the words of Spike Lee, "Wake up!" > >Sincerely, >Jim Sparks > > >On 5/2/07, David M. Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I doubt it will have much effect at all. ICR published a >similar journal in > the past. Now they'll have a new name and new volume numbers, >but nothing > new to say. > > Dave > > ------------------------------------------------------ > David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786 > 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 > Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > USA | http: http://fuzzo.com > ------------------------------------------------------ > > "We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo > > "No trespassing > 4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news > [mailto: [email protected] ><mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Jim Sparks > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:48 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Inaugural Call for Papers for the International >Journal of Creation > Research (IJCR). > > Have you seen this? A peer reviewed journal for young earth >creationism! > Please tell me that someone out there is preparing some stiff >opposition to > this. > > When this thing gets off the ground it will do a pretty good job of > undermining scientific method and credibility. This may be >even worse than > recent scandals involving pharmaceutical industry funding of > product research or petroleum industry scientists contradicting > climatologists on global warming. Journals on the whole are >losing their > credibility because of various financial entanglements in a few key > fields. This current attack is not going to help ecology and >evolutionary > biology one bit. > > As goes the reputation of journals, so goes the voices of reason. >Can > anyone think of a way to defend Aristotelian logic or all we >all going to > just watch placidly as the age of reason slips into the shadowy > recesses of a new, albeit perhaps more subtle Dark Ages. > > Sincerely, > Jim Sparks > http://www.icr.edu/ijcr/index.html > > *International Journal for Creation Research * > > The Institute for Creation Research is pleased to announce the >inaugural > Call for Papers for the International Journal of Creation >Research (IJCR). > > IJCR is a professional peer-reviewed journal of >interdisciplinary scientific > research that presents evidence for recent creation within a >biblical > framework. > > Addressing the need to disseminate the vast field of research >conducted by > experts in geology, genetics, astronomy, and other disciplines >of science, > IJCR provides scientists and students hard data based on >cutting-edge > research that demonstrates the young earth model, the global >Flood, the > non-evolutionary origin of the species, and other evidences >that correlate > to the biblical accounts. > > It is our hope that you will be encouraged in your study of >creation science > issues that remain at the forefront of education and research. > > Andrew A. Snelling > Editor-in-Chief > > -- > James L. Sparks Jr. M.Sc. > Freelance Ecology > 4530 E. Seminary Ave. > Richmond, VA 23227 > 804.426.2479 (cell) > > > > > >-- >James L. Sparks Jr. M.Sc. >Freelance Ecology >4530 E. Seminary Ave. >Richmond, VA 23227 >804.426.2479 (cell)
