Gathman's hypothesis, that childbearing=selfishness, seems unfalsifiable. Everything we do can be seen to be in our self-interest in some form or fashion.
Let's take the current topic: I want children; I have children; I pass on my genes, thus act in my self-interest; Therefore I am "selfish." Here are some other examples of "selfishness," as Gathman calls it. I go to work; I do my job; I get my paycheck, thus act in my self-interest; Therefore I am "selfish." Someone threatens my life; I kill them in self-defense; I act in my self-interest; Therefore I am "selfish." Someone tries to shoot my sister; I take the bullet instead of her; By saving her, and by saving a portion of my genes, I act in my self-interest; Therefore I am "selfish." An animal attacks a total stranger; I fight the animal, dying in the process, but saving the stranger's life; By saving the stranger, thus a portion of my genes, I act in my self-interest; Therefore I am "selfish." I need a fix; I know I suffer from my addiction, but the fix relieves the pain for a time; I act in my self-interest; Therefore I am "selfish." No one loves me; I kill myself to show everyone in my life they should have appreciated me more; By causing them pain, I gain power; By gaining power, I act in my self-interest; Therefore I am "selfish." I choose not to have children; By doing so, I feel morally superior to those who have children; Feeling superior is in my self-interest; Therefore I am "selfish." Dave ------------------------------------------------------ David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] USA | http: http://fuzzo.com ------------------------------------------------------ "We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo "No trespassing 4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan -----Original Message----- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joseph gathman Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 4:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: all those selfish mothers! > I simply cannot understand how anyone > could think that childbearing and childrearing are > selfish at any level. I should clarify what I meant by "selfish". I'm not talking about a mother sacrificing for her child (it's what she SHOULD do, and, after all, it is perpetuating her own alleles). People who (choose to) have babies do so because they want to, so they are serving their own self interest. Similarly, people who don't (choose to) have babies are also serving their own self interest. So is there any difference? Maybe not much, but the reproducers are creating more consumers simply because they want the satisfaction of having children. This could be considered a problem given our present planetary predicament. Furthermore, "educated" people who understand this are also a bit arrogant to think that they should reproduce, while understanding that overall reproduction needs to decline. Then there's the tendency of quite a few reproducers to assume that everybody else should cut them slack (e.g. in the workplace) or consider their child-rearing a noble sacrifice. So, no, I don't accept that I am being preposterous. Joe > To be selfish is to be 1) concerned excessively or > exclusively with = > oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own > advantage, pleasure, or = > well-being without regard for others; and 2: arising > from concern with = > one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of > others*. The mother of a = > child sacrifices her personal comfort, risks her > life, changes her = > social involvement, yields her will to her child, > incurs additional and = > substantial healthcare costs, and this all before > she gives birth! You = > may say it is selfish at a society level (how dare > we have children to = > compete for resources with other's?), but > perpetuation of society = > requires perpetuation of the species. You may say > it is selfish at the = > biosphere level; we should cease reproducing > altogether, for the good of = > all other lifeforms? No, self-preservation is not > selfishness. =20 > > Much more selfish than a mother is a woman who > engages in sexual = > activity for her pleasure alone (don't misread this > please), desires her = > comfort above anything else, maintains her social > involvement for the = > sake of her ego, leeches personal benefit from the > societal structure = > consequent from others having children, travels off > to fur-flung exotica = > because she has no children to cramp her style, etc. > Not that we = > shouldn't respect those who make those choices...the > choices are just = > more selfish. > > As long as we are pointing fingers preposterously, > consider the elderly. = > They have expendable income and have time to travel > (expending fossil = > fuel!). They are living longer than ever before > (taking up precious = > food and shelter resources). They are the primary > beneficiaries of = > Social Security. Yes, they contributed, but how > selfish of them to not = > donate it to the greater cause! They require more > health intervention = > and medication and increase the costs for the rest > of us, and increase = > the synthetic chemical load in our groundwater. And > what benefit do = > they give to the population? They are not necessary > for any biological = > population, other than fodder for the predators, > allowing the young to = > reach reproductive age. Geronticide is more > sustainable than = > spermicide. Like I said, preposterous! > > *Merriam-Webster > ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
