Bill,
At issue here is really why we care about rain forest removal.  Within the
lens of a carbon-cycle or Climate Change debate, we care about them because
they represent large carbon stocks that are kept out of the atmosphere.  Of
course there is an important difference between the term carbon "stock" and
carbon "sink."  The article mentions that young forests tend to sequester
CO2 out of the atmosphere at greater rates than their mature counterparts,
and this is absolutely correct.  The same phenomena is observed in nearly
all forest ecotypes, be they temperate or tropical, and makes sense given
the intense vertical competition incurred in early forest development.
Early forests are impressive carbon sinks.  Mature forests have large carbon
stocks.  Foresters have indirectly understood this for years from a biomass
point of view, limiting their rotations to 25-35-50 years and harvesting the
timber when it reached a threshold whereby the slowing rate of growth made
biomass gains less profitable.

Mature rain forests are not large carbon sinks.  At this stage the
increasing respiration generated by older slower-growing trees, and soil
micro-organisms offsets many of the gains of photosynthesis.  Surprising
ecosystems like Mangrove forests and sub-alpine forests remain sinks in
maturity because of respiration limitations: in Mangroves, anoxia limits
soil respiration, and in sub-alpine forests, cold and water stress limit
soil respiration.  Sinks or Stocks.  What do we care about?  At it's
simplest, we should probably most care about stocks, as this represents
carbon unavailable to the atmosphere.

The other argument about whether a young forest functions in the same
capacity as a Mature forest is a different matter.  There are probably not
too many people on this list that would argue that a primary stand delivers
the same biogeochemical, ecological, hydrologic, and energy balance
properties observed in a Mature stand.  A value decision about what is "good
enough" then comes into play.  That's when things get sticky.

You may have heard about the "North American Carbon Sink," which is largely
due to the recovery of our once heavily-logged forests over the last century
or so.  This does not mean that the biomass of North American forests is
somehow holding as much Carbon as it was in pre-colonial times.  It simply
means that there has been some recovery, as there now seems to be in certain
areas of the rain forest (though not enough to completely mitigate the
effects of initial deforestation).  Mature forests hold more carbon in the
Biosphere.  If it's not there, you can bet that much of it is circulating in
the atmosphere.

DM










On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:21 AM, Bill Silvert <[email protected]> wrote:

> I was intrigued to see this in the New York Times. I have no   background
> in this area and would be interested in seeing what more knowledgable
> list members might have to say.
>
> Also I recently heard a statement that there is a significant   amount of
> anaerobic decomposition under old growth forests that should be   factored
> into calculations of biogeochemical fluxes, and it would be interesting
> to hear about that too.
>
> Bill Silvert
>
>
> January 30, 2009
>
> New Jungles Prompt a Debate on Rain   Forests
> By [LINK:
>
> http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=ELISABETH%20ROSENTHAL&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=ELISABETH%20ROSENTHAL&inline=nyt-per
> ]
> ELISABETH   ROSENTHAL
>
>
> CHILIBRE, [LINK:
>
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/panama/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
> ]
> Panama   — The land where Marta Ortega de Wing raised hundreds of pigs
> until 10 years ago   is being overtaken by galloping jungle — palms,
> lizards and ants.
>
> Instead of farming, she now shops at the supermarket and her grown
> children   and grandchildren live in places like Panama City and New York.
>
>
> Here, and in other tropical countries around the world, small holdings
> like   Ms. Ortega de Wing's — and much larger swaths of farmland — are
> reverting to   nature, as people abandon their land and move to the cities
> in search of better   livings.
>
> These new "secondary" forests are emerging in Latin America, Asia and
> other   tropical regions at such a fast pace that the trend has set off a
> serious debate   about whether saving primeval [LINK:
>
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/forests_and_forestry/rain_forests/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ]
> rain   forest — an iconic environmental cause — may be less urgent than
> once   thought. By one estimate, for every acre of rain forest cut down
> each year, more   than 50 acres of new forest are growing in the tropics on
> land that was once   farmed, logged or ravaged by natural disaster.
>
> "There is far more forest here than there was 30 years ago," said Ms.
> Ortega   de Wing, 64, who remembers fields of mango trees and banana
> plants.
>
> The new forests, the scientists argue, could blunt the effects of rain
> forest   destruction by absorbing carbon dioxide, the leading heat-trapping
> gas linked to   [LINK:
>
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/globalwarming/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> ]
> global   warming, one crucial role that rain forests play. They could also,
> to a   lesser extent, provide habitat for endangered species.
>
> The idea has stirred outrage among environmentalists who believe that
> vigorous efforts to protect native rain forest should remain a top
> priority. But   the notion has gained currency in mainstream organizations
> like the [LINK:
>
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/s/smithsonian_institution/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> ]
> Smithsonian   Institution and the [LINK:
>
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/united_nations/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> ]
> United   Nations, which in 2005 concluded that new forests were "increasing
>  dramatically" and "undervalued" for their environmental benefits. The
> United   Nations is undertaking the first global catalog of the new
> forests, which vary   greatly in their stage of growth.
>
> "Biologists were ignoring these huge population trends and acting as if
> only   original forest has conservation value, and that's just wrong," said
> Joe Wright,   a senior scientist at the Smithsonian Tropical Research
> Institute here, who set   off a firestorm two years ago by suggesting that
> the new forests could   substantially compensate for rain forest
> destruction.
>
> "Is this a real rain forest?" Dr. Wright asked, walking the land of a
> former   American cacao plantation that was abandoned about 50 years ago,
> and pointing to   fig trees and vast webs of community spiders and howler
> monkeys.
>
> "A botanist can look at the trees here and know this is regrowth," he
> said.   "But the temperature and humidity are right. Look at the number of
> birds! It   works. This is a suitable habitat."
>
> Dr. Wright and others say the overzealous protection of rain forests not
> only   prevents poor local people from profiting from the rain forests on
> their land   but also robs financing and attention from other approaches to
> fighting global   warming, like eliminating coal plants.
>
> But other scientists, including some of Dr. Wright's closest colleagues,
> disagree, saying that forceful protection of rain forests is especially
> important in the face of threats from industrialized farming and logging.
>
>
> The issue has also set off a debate over the true definition of a rain
> forest. How do old forests compare with new ones in their environmental
> value?   Is every rain forest sacred?
>
> "Yes, there are forests growing back, but not all forests are equal," said
>  Bill Laurance, another senior scientist at the Smithsonian, who has
> worked   extensively in the Amazon.
>
> He scoffed as he viewed Ms. Ortega de Wing's overgrown land: "This is a
> caricature of a rain forest!" he said. "There's no canopy, there's too much
>  light, there are only a few species. There is a lot of change all around
> here   whittling away at the forest, from highways to development."
>
> While new forests may absorb carbon emissions, he says, they are unlikely
> to   save most endangered rain-forest species, which have no way to reach
> them.
>
> Everyone, including Dr. Wright, agrees that large-scale rain-forest
> destruction in the Amazon or Indonesia should be limited or managed. Rain
> forests are the world's great carbon sinks, absorbing the emissions that
> humans   send into the atmosphere, and providing havens for biodiversity.
>
>
> At issue is how to tally the costs and benefits of forests, at a time when
>  increasing attention is being paid to global climate management and
> carbon   accounting.
>
> Just last month, at climate talks held by the United Nations in Poznan,
> Poland, the world's environment ministers agreed to a new program through
> which   developing countries will be rewarded for preventing deforestation.
> But little   is known about the new forests — some of them have never even
> been mapped — and   they were not factored into the equation at the
> meetings.
>
> Dr. Wright and other scientists say they should be. About 38 million acres
> of   original rain forest are being cut down every year, but in 2005,
> according to   the most recent "State of the World's Forests Report" by the
> United Nations Food   and Agriculture Organization, there were an estimated
> 2.1 billion acres of   potential replacement forest growing in the tropics
> — an area almost as large as   the United States. The new forest included
> secondary forest on former farmland   and so-called degraded forest, land
> that has been partly logged or destroyed by   natural disasters like fires
> and then left to nature. In Panama by the 1990s,   the last decade for
> which data is available, the rain forest is being destroyed   at a rate of
> 1.3 percent each year. The area of secondary forest is increasing   by more
> than 4 percent yearly, Dr. Wright estimates.
>
> With the heat and rainfall in tropical Panama, new growth is remarkably
> fast.   Within 15 years, abandoned land can contain trees more than 100
> feet high.   Within 20, a thick rain-forest canopy forms again. Here in the
> lush, misty   hills, it is easy to see rain-forest destruction as part of a
> centuries-old   cycle of human civilization and wilderness, in which each
> in turn is cleared and   replaced by the other. The Mayans first cleared
> lands here that are now dense   forest. The area around Gamboa, cleared
> when the Panama Canal was built, now   looks to the untrained eye like the
> wildest of jungles.
>
> But Dr. Laurance says that is a dangerous lens through which to view the
> modern world, where the forces that are destroying rain forest operate on a
>  scale previously unknown.
>
> Now the rain forest is being felled by "industrial forestry, agriculture,
> the   oil and gas industry — and it's globalized, where every stick of
> timber is being   cut in Congo is sent to China and one bulldozer does a
> lot more damage than   1,000 farmers with machetes," he said.
>
> Globally, one-fifth of the world's carbon emissions come from the
> destruction   of rain forests, scientists say. It is unknown how much of
> that is being   canceled out by forest that is in the process of regrowth.
> It is a crucial but   scientifically controversial question, the answer to
> which may depend on where   and when the forests are growing.
>
> Although the United Nations' report noted the enormous increase of
> secondary   forests, it is unclear how to describe or define them. The 2.1
> billion acres of   secondary forests includes a mishmash of land that has
> the potential to grow   into a vibrant faux rain forest and land that may
> never become more than a   biologically shallow tangle of trees and weeds.
>
>
> "Our knowledge of these forests is still rather limited," said Wulf
> Killmann,   director of forestry products and industry at the United
> Nations agriculture   organization. The agency is in the early phases of a
> global assessment of the   scope of secondary forest, which will be ready
> in 2011.
>
> The Smithsonian, hoping to answer such questions, is just starting to
> study a   large plot of newly abandoned farmland in central Panama to learn
> about the   regeneration of forests there.
>
> Regenerated forests in the tropics appear to be especially good at
> absorbing   emissions of carbon, but that ability is based on location and
> rate of growth. A   field abandoned in New York in 1900 will have trees
> shorter than those growing   on a field here that was abandoned just 20
> years ago.
>
> For many biologists, a far bigger concern is whether new forests can
> support   the riot of plant and animal species associated with rain
> forests. Part of the   problem is that abandoned farmland is often distant
> from native rain forest. How   does it help Amazonian species threatened by
> rain-forest destruction in [LINK:
>
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/brazil/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
> ]
> Brazil   if secondary forests grow on the outskirts of Panama City?
>
> Dr. Wright — an internationally respected scientist — said he knew he was
>  stirring up controversy when he suggested to a conference of tropical
> biologists   that rain forests might not be so bad off. Having lived in
> Panama for 25 years,   he is convinced that scientific assessments of the
> rain forests' future were not   taking into account the effects of
> population and migration trends that are   obvious on the ground.
>
> In Latin America and Asia, birthrates have dropped drastically; most
> people   have two or three children. New jobs tied to global industry, as
> well as   improved transportation, are luring a rural population to
> fast-growing cities.   Better farming techniques and access to seed and
> fertilizer mean that marginal   lands are no longer farmed because it takes
> fewer farmers to feed a growing   population.
>
> Gumercinto Vásquez, a stooped casual laborer who was weeding a field in
> Chilibre in the blistering sun, said it had become hard for him to find
> work   because so many farms had been abandoned.
>
> "Very few people around here are farming these days," he said.
>
> Dr. Wright, looking at a new forest, sees possibility. He says new
> research   suggests that 40 to 90 percent of rain-forest species can
> survive in new forest.
>
> Dr. Laurance focuses on what will be missing, ticking off species like
> jaguars, tapirs and a variety of birds and invertebrates.
>
> While he concedes that a regrown forest may absorb some carbon, he
> insists,   "This is not the rich ecosystem of a rain forest."
>
> Still, the fate of secondary forests lies not just in biology. A global
> recession could erase jobs in cities, driving residents back to the land.
>
>
> "Those are questions for economists and politicians, not us," Dr. Wright
> said.
>
> [LINK: http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html]
> Copyright   2009 [LINK: http://www.nytco.com/] The New York Times Company
>

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