I and Michael Polan (the one who wrote the NY times article that was posted) agree the quantity is important. He has a statement he has been trying to popularize based on a mix of nutritional information and environmental information... "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants."
You can find his books and articles at this website: http://www.michaelpollan.com/write.php Check this out: "Some recent research by a professor at my own university suggests that one thing that does translate into action is social norms. If all your friend's are doing it, you feel like you doing it too. http://www.theatlantic.com/<http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200907/green-envy> doc/200907/green-envy <http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200907/green-envy>" Here's an article about what hollywood is doing (a little old): http://www.moviemaker.com/directing/article/hollywood_goes_green_2881/ Another one more recent: http://environment.uk.msn.com/green-living/article.aspx?cp-documentid=9277263 v These trends are one of the things that cause me to be more hopeful... I see it right in front of me, many people are changing. But it does seem to depend on who you look up to. Generalizing, when I talk to people that look up to athletes and professional sports stars or republican media pundits, they tend to be slightly less interested in changing to be more sustainable. There are also a group of opinionated people that seem to have made up their mind on the issue and will be stubborn about listening to others or making any changes. Some people have a family member that inhibits them from making changes they desire. Men seem to be less interested and open to these ideas than women. This is all just my personal experience. But despite all this, I still see a large group of people interested in making lifestyle changes when I didn't notice this before. The more people that head this way, the more the social norms change and the more powerful this force becomes (the old critical mass argument seems to apply here). Kevin On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:41 AM, malcolm McCallum < [email protected]> wrote: > another thought. Don't you think that quantity of food eaten might be > more important than what is actually eaten? > > Lets say we all decided we would eat a cheeseburger and a small fry, > instead of a quarterpounder and a supersized fry? > > Of course that is an example, but it could easily be the pint of fried > rice or the quart of fried rice at the chinese restaurant. > > I should have probably said this earlier as it would obviously tie > things together more clearly. Gluttony and selfishness is the > problem. Whether we are talking food, clothes, vehicles and vehicle > use, housing size, temperature in the house, its still the same issue. > Consumption at the extreme is the norm in many places. > > Now, we know that over-consumption is a vice and that it requires > curbing. However, only if you look at it from a single angle. > Over-consumption and selfishness can be used against itself with a > smart marketing campaign. ITs all about keeping up with the Jones's > isn't it???? > > So, here is one thing that could be done. Get in with some teenage TV > shows, movie stars, and rock stars. People who everyone pays > attention too whether they earned it or not. Have them talk about how > they are buying their own natural areas because its the cool thing to > do, or how they are putting in gray water systems because its the cool > thing to do. > > Currently, environmentalism is not COOL. What can we do to make it COOL? > That is how you make change in the western world. IT must be the latest > fad, it > must be at the forefront of following the crowd. It must be what the > football player, > the rock star, and the cool kid on the street are doing. > > So how do you get it there? Know any environmental nascar drivers? > that woudl be a start! > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:16 AM, malcolm McCallum > <[email protected]> wrote: > > So, does all this consider that cows in feedlots are fed candy > > wrappers, newspaper and other refuse? Also, have we considered that a > > vegetarian diet has more fiber and therefore more indigestible > > materials, so should produce more human fecal material? I'm half > > serious here. We are really drawing a line in the sand between two > > things that on the grand scale of life are not all that difference. > > Both are environmentally impactive! > > > > Again, regardless of whether a meat diet or vegetable diet has a > > bigger impact on the environment is really a irrelevant argument > > because the nation or world is not going to suddenly shift to an > > alternative diet in either direction. Although certain third world > > countries may feed more on vegetables, the choice to eat meat or > > vegetables is largely preference in the rest of the world. Educating > > people on the benefits and problems involved with alternative ways of > > living is a good thing. Ignoring the negatives is a disservice to > > everyone and can even be counter-productive. But, I do not believe > > that the human palate as a whole will ever switch entirely to meat or > > vegetables. So, what are we going to do in the meantime? > > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Kevin McCluney <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Well, as a matter of fact, a brief search turned up a May 2009 special > issue > >> of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that is relevant to our > >> discussion. They may not consider all the potential implications, but > at > >> least we have something scientific to go on. > >> I have pasted several relevant abstracts below. > >> Here's what I read from a couple abstracts that address the consumption > >> issue (I haven't read the full studies yet): > >> A vegetarian diet has a much lower use of water, energy, fertilizer, and > >> pesticides. Except for pesticides, these items are 2-13 times higher > for a > >> non-vegetarian diet. Something similar is apparent when one examines > >> greenhouse gas emissions (lifecycle). Cows are the highest contributor > to > >> these differences, with chickens less of a contributor. They do note > that > >> effects of legume production on gas emissions can be high too, but not > as > >> high as the cow based proteins. > >> There was also a lot of information on health (the other 25 papers in > the > >> special issue). > >> I haven't looked through these thoroughly. I did notice one that > mentioned > >> positive health effects of a vegetarian diet on heart disease, > hypertension, > >> diabetes, obesity, and perhaps cancer, although different types of > cancers > >> may not respond similarly and so a vegetarian diet may not lower the > risk of > >> all types of cancers. The authors noted an overall increase in life > >> expectancy of vegetarians. Other studies indicate that in certain > >> situations these health effects don't always hold up. > >> Another study remarked that those people on vegan diets may be at risk > for > >> deficiencies of B-12, D, Calcium, and omega-3 fatty acids unless they > take > >> supplements or eat carefully. Iron and zinc may sometimes be a concern. > >> Notice they did not mention a lack of certain amino acids, as has been > >> suggested on this discussion board. > >> There is some debate about how important it is for vegetarians to drink > >> milk. Some say it is good, some say it not necessary and may even have > >> certain detrimental effects. One study stated that early results > suggest > >> that soy infant formula has no negative health effects on humans up to > the > >> age of 5 (don't have data beyond that yet). > >> Anyway, please feel free to go check it out yourselves. > >> I hope we get more studies like this. Perhaps some ecologists might > take an > >> interest? Some among us are quite good at energy, water, and nutrient > >> budgets. We shouldn't let the nutritionists have all the fun. > >> Kevin > >> Here are a few selected abstracts: > >> Marlow, H. J., W. K. Hayes, et al. (2009). "Diet and the environment: > does > >> what you eat matter?" American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 89(5): > >> S1699-S1703. > >> Food demand influences agricultural production. Modern agricultural > >> practices have resulted in polluted soil, air, and water; eroded soil; > >> dependence on imported oil; and loss of biodiversity. The goal of this > >> research was to compare the environmental effect of a vegetarian and > >> nonvegetarian diet in California in terms of agricultural production > inputs, > >> including pesticides and fertilizers, water, and energy used to produce > >> commodities. The working assumption was that a greater number and amount > of > >> inputs were associated with a greater environmental effect. The > literature > >> supported this notion. To accomplish this goal, dietary preferences were > >> quantified with the Adventist Health Study, and California state > >> agricultural data were collected and applied to state commodity > production > >> statistics. These data were used to calculate different dietary > consumption > >> patterns and indexes to compare the environmental effect associated with > >> dietary preference. Results show that, for the combined differential > >> production of 11 food items for which consumption differs among > vegetarians > >> and nonvegetarians, the nonvegetarian diet required 2.9 times more > water, > >> 2.5 times more primary energy, 13 times more fertilizer, and 1.4 times > more > >> pesticides than did the vegetarian diet. The greatest contribution to > the > >> differences came from the consumption of beef in the diet. We found that > a > >> nonvegetarian diet exacts a higher cost on the environment relative to a > >> vegetarian diet. From an environmental perspective, what a person > chooses to > >> eat makes a difference. Am J Clin Nutr 2009; 89(suppl): 1699S-703S. > >> Carlsson-Kanyama, A. and A. D. Gonzalez (2009). "Potential contributions > of > >> food consumption patterns to climate change." American Journal of > Clinical > >> Nutrition 89(5): S1704-S1709. > >> Anthropogenic warming is caused mainly by emissions of greenhouse gases > >> (GHGs), such as carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide, with > agriculture > >> as a main contributor for the latter 2 gases. Other parts of the food > system > >> contribute carbon dioxide emissions that emanate from the use of fossil > >> fuels in transportation, processing, retailing, storage, and > preparation. > >> Food items differ substantially when GHG emissions are calculated from > farm > >> to table. A recent study of approximate to 20 items sold in Sweden > showed a > >> span of 0.4 to 30 kg CO2 equivalents/kg edible product. For protein-rich > >> food, such as legumes, meat, fish, cheese, and eggs, the difference is a > >> factor of 30 with the lowest emissions per kilogram for legumes, > poultry, > >> and eggs and the highest for beef, cheese, and pork. Large emissions for > >> ruminants are explained mainly by methane emissions from enteric > >> fermentation. For vegetables and fruits, emissions usually are <= 2.5 kg > CO2 > >> equivalents/kg product, even if there is a high degree of processing and > >> substantial transportation. Products transported by plane are an > exception > >> because emissions may be as large as for certain meats. Emissions from > foods > >> rich in carbohydrates, such as potatoes, pasta, and wheat, are <1.1 > kg/kg > >> edible food. We suggest that changes in the diet toward more plant-based > >> foods, toward meat from animals with little enteric fermentation, and > toward > >> foods processed in an energy-efficient manner offer an interesting and > >> little explored area for mitigating climate change. Am J Clin Nutr 2009; > >> 89(suppl): 1704S-9S. > >> Fraser, G. E. (2009). "Vegetarian diets: what do we know of their > effects on > >> common chronic diseases?" American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 89(5): > >> S1607-S1612. > >> A number of studies have evaluated the health of vegetarians. Others > have > >> studied the health effects of foods that are preferred or avoided by > >> vegetarians. The purpose of this review is to look critically at the > >> evidence on the health effects of vegetarian diets and to seek possible > >> explanations where results appear to conflict. There is convincing > evidence > >> that vegetarians have lower rates of coronary heart disease, largely > >> explained by low LDL cholesterol, probable lower rates of hypertension > and > >> diabetes mellitus, and lower prevalence of obesity. Overall, their > cancer > >> rates appear to be moderately lower than others living in the same > >> communities, and life expectancy appears to be greater. However, results > for > >> specific cancers are much less convincing and require more study. There > is > >> evidence that risk of colorectal cancer is lower in vegetarians and in > those > >> who eat less meat; however, results from British vegetarians presently > >> disagree, and this needs explanation. It is probable that using the > label > >> "vegetarian" as a dietary category is too broad and that our > understanding > >> will be served well by dividing vegetarians into more descriptive > sub-types. > >> Although vegetarian diets are healthful and are associated with lower > risk > >> of several chronic diseases, different types of vegetarians may not > >> experience the same effects on health. Am J Clin Nutr 2009; 89(suppl): > >> 1607S-12S. > >> Craig, W. J. (2009). "Health effects of vegan diets." American Journal > of > >> Clinical Nutrition 89(5): S1627-S1633. > >> Recently, vegetarian diets have experienced an increase in popularity. A > >> vegetarian diet is associated with many health benefits because of its > >> higher content of fiber, folic acid, vitamins C and E, potassium, > magnesium, > >> and many phytochemicals and a fat content that is more unsaturated. > Compared > >> with other vegetarian diets, vegan diets tend to contain less saturated > fat > >> and cholesterol and more dietary fiber. Vegans tend to be thinner, have > >> lower serum cholesterol, and lower blood pressure, reducing their risk > of > >> heart disease. However, eliminating all animal products from the diet > >> increases the risk of certain nutritional deficiencies. Micronutrients > of > >> special concern for the vegan include vitamins B-12 and D, calcium, and > >> long-chain n-3 (omega-3) fatty acids. Unless vegans regularly consume > foods > >> that are fortified with these nutrients, appropriate supplements should > be > >> consumed. In some cases, iron and zinc status of vegans may also be of > >> concern because of the limited bioavailability of these minerals. Am J > Clin > >> Nutr 2009; 89(suppl): 1627S-33S. > >> Eshel, G. and P. A. Martin (2009). "Geophysics and nutritional science: > >> toward a novel, unified paradigm." American Journal of Clinical > Nutrition > >> 89(5): S1710-S1716. > >> This article discusses a few basic geophysical processes, which > collectively > >> indicate that several nutritionally adverse elements of current Western > >> diets also yield environmentally harmful food consumption patterns. We > >> address oceanic dead zones, which are at the confluence of oceanography, > >> aquatic chemistry, and agronomy and which are a clear environmental > problem, > >> and agriculture's effects on the surface heat budget. These exemplify > the > >> unknown, complex, and sometimes unexpected large-scale environmental > effects > >> of agriculture. We delineate the significant alignment in purpose > between > >> nutritional and environmental sciences. We identify red meat, and to a > >> lesser extent the broader animal-based portion of the diet, as having > the > >> greatest environmental effect, with clear nutritional parallels. Am J > Clin > >> Nutr 2009; 89(suppl): 1710S-6S. > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:07 PM, malcolm McCallum > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> Wayne, > >>> You nailed it. I doubt if anyone has, but, I suspect that there would > >>> just be different environmental problems not a reduction. It is > >>> inevitable that every action has a reaction. > >>> > >>> (also, the previous post was not a response to your email, I just > >>> posted on your thread!) > >>> > >>> M > >>> > >>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > Ecolog: > >>> > > >>> > What would the actual effect on species diversity of universal > >>> > vegetarianism? Has anyone done the math? > >>> > > >>> > WT > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James J. Roper" < > [email protected]> > >>> > To: <[email protected]> > >>> > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:58 AM > >>> > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Are ecologists the problem? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> >> A well-known statistic is that there are as many domestic animals > bred > >>> >> for food for people as there are people in the world, or more. If > we > >>> >> consider a 10% conversion of food to mass of the consumer, the logic > is > >>> >> undeniable that if all ate lower on the food chain, we could use > less > >>> >> land to do it with. Also, we could do it with less energy. Another > >>> >> detail is that more land is used to grow food for those animals than > to > >>> >> grow food for people. Just switching the land to grow food for > people > >>> >> instead of animals would mean that we could do this on much less > land. > >>> >> Habitat loss is one of the driving forces of extinctions world wide. > >>> >> But also, pollution from high efficiency animal production is > another > >>> >> huge issue (pigs and chickens). Not to mention land degradation due > to > >>> >> grazing. > >>> >> > >>> >> Also well known - vegetarian diets can provide all the nutrients > that > >>> >> normal people need. > >>> >> > >>> >> QED - a vegetarian diet would be better for the planet (and we would > >>> >> have much smaller problems with obesity!). > >>> >> > >>> >> Cheers, > >>> >> > >>> >> Jim > >>> >> > >>> >> malcolm McCallum wrote on 09-Sep-09 0:50: > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I tend to believe that any absolute answer that is declared an end > all > >>> >>> answer > >>> >>> is probably not the answer. For example, I'm not convinced that > >>> >>> everyone > >>> >>> jumping into a vegetarian diet is going to suddenly or even slowly > >>> >>> save the world. > >>> >>> Especially, considering that some of these stats are based on > >>> >>> unrealistic > >>> >>> estimates. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> For example, suggesting that x acres of corn would feed x number of > >>> >>> cows > >>> >>> and > >>> >>> that would feed x number of people whereas the x acres of corn > would > >>> >>> feed > >>> >>> way > >>> >>> more people is flawed. Humans cannot survive on a corn diet. Even > if > >>> >>> we expanded > >>> >>> this to grains and soybeans, humans cannot survive on a > corn-soybean > >>> >>> diet. > >>> >>> Why? because vegetables in general are low in two or three > essential > >>> >>> amino acids > >>> >>> that humans must get in their diet. those amino acids are produced > by > >>> >>> animals > >>> >>> and so you must ultimately get them from animals or artificially > >>> >>> produced products. > >>> >>> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.91/2363 - Release Date: > >>> > 09/11/09 > >>> > 09:15:00 > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Malcolm L. McCallum > >>> Associate Professor of Biology > >>> Managing Editor, > >>> Herpetological Conservation and Biology > >>> Texas A&M University-Texarkana > >>> Fall Teaching Schedule: > >>> Vertebrate Biology - TR 10-11:40; General Ecology - MW 1-2:40pm; > >>> Forensic Science - W 6-9:40pm > >>> Office Hourse- TBA > >>> > >>> 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert > >>> 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, > >>> and pollution. > >>> 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction > >>> MAY help restore populations. > >>> 2022: Soylent Green is People! > >>> > >>> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any > >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > >>> contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized > >>> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > >>> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and > >>> destroy all copies of the original message. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Kevin E. McCluney > >> Graduate Student > >> School of Life Sciences > >> Arizona State University > >> Tempe, AZ 85287-4601 > >> > >> "I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I > can > >> do something; I will not refuse to do something I can do." > >> --Helen Keller > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Malcolm L. McCallum > > Associate Professor of Biology > > Managing Editor, > > Herpetological Conservation and Biology > > Texas A&M University-Texarkana > > Fall Teaching Schedule: > > Vertebrate Biology - TR 10-11:40; General Ecology - MW 1-2:40pm; > > Forensic Science - W 6-9:40pm > > Office Hourse- TBA > > > > 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert > > 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, > > and pollution. > > 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction > > MAY help restore populations. > > 2022: Soylent Green is People! > > > > Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any > > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > > contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized > > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > > the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and > > destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > > > -- > Malcolm L. McCallum > Associate Professor of Biology > Managing Editor, > Herpetological Conservation and Biology > Texas A&M University-Texarkana > Fall Teaching Schedule: > Vertebrate Biology - TR 10-11:40; General Ecology - MW 1-2:40pm; > Forensic Science - W 6-9:40pm > Office Hourse- TBA > > 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert > 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, > and pollution. > 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction > MAY help restore populations. > 2022: Soylent Green is People! > > Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and > destroy all copies of the original message. > -- Kevin E. McCluney Graduate Student School of Life Sciences Arizona State University Tempe, AZ 85287-4601 "I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; I will not refuse to do something I can do." --Helen Keller
