Dear Ecolog readers and commenters, I'd like to take the opportunity to provide a very brief critique of the education portion of the "now I've seen it all" thread. In general, I think this forum makes a lot of assumptions based on little to no evidence. Below I will provide a few counterarguments and alternate hypotheses to the themes of poor attitude, ill prepared, and uninterested students. All the evidence cited below is from the Beginning College Survey of Student Engagement, a higher education research institute that surveys 129 U.S. institutions at various degree levels.
Several readers have commented that today’s student is less likely, or unable, to put together ideas from other classes. Some have claimed that institutions are even shifting from a liberal education to adhere to the wants of these “profession” driven agendas. The fact that 77% of freshman surveyed this year expect to “put together concepts from several courses on a report" “often” or “very often” directly refutes several of these claims. As for liberal educations, one alternative hypothesis to the “shifting universities” idea is that more technically universities are being created to fill the demands of today’s information driven society, but that the sheer number of liberal arts colleges has actually remained static. As for the preparedness of students, to which one responder stated “students are certainly less prepared for college [today than in the past]”, I would like to point out that record numbers of students are taking AP and community college courses before graduating high school. Finally, on a scale of 1 to 6 with 6 being “very important”, nearly 90% of the approximately 15,000 freshman students surveyed this year answered 4,5, or 6 on the question: “how important is it that your university provide a challenging academic experience”. This tells me that today’s students are indeed interested in learning. For reference, many questions regarding student attitudes were centered on 3 with very few 5’s or 6’s. Again, this information and more can be found at: http://bcsse.iub.edu/pdf/BCSSE09%20Institutional%20Report%20%28bacc%29.pdf Thank you very much, Sarah Fann "Education is what survives when what has been learnt has been forgotten." - Fortune cookie ________________________________________ From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Silvert [[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education- student's perspective I think that Derek's "older gentleman" friend may have an idealistic view of why students went to college back in the remote 60's. When I entered college in 1954 (a good one, an Ivy League university) there was a reception for the scholarship students at which I met the Dean of Admissions. He immediately recognised me, to my great surprise. When I expressed shock that he could recognise me from a single photograph in a university with thousands of applicants he laughed and replied that I was especially memorable because of my reply to the question, "Why do you wnt to go to Brown University?". My answer, which I thought straightforward but which was apparently unusual, was "To get an education." I hardly believe that it became more common ten years later. Bill Silvert Brown '58 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Pursell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: sábado, 23 de Janeiro de 2010 6:20 Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] now I've seen it all: Decline in education- student's perspective A good friend of mine, an older gentleman who has worked as president for an environmental NGO in the northeast for years, put it to me in a particularly striking way. He said, and I am paraphrasing, "In terms of education, the reality in America is that a lot of people are going to college who shouldn't." When I asked him to expound on his point, he said, "Ideally, especially when I was going to university in the 60's, it was viewed as a way of getting an education and expanding your mind and interests. The fact it could lead to meaningful and satisfying work was an afterthought. The point was education. Today, it feels like many students, and others have said this too, are going for certification. Instead of education being the end, it is the means to something else, such as a job position. It isn't like I am saying that people should not try to educate themselves; what I am saying is that the trend towards mass production of education (which very obviously has led to some real shortcomings in quality) has damaged the overall education of many students, and that some people who are students shouldn't be; standards have dropped for entry to many universities, and it shows." After hearing his thoughts, I thought about all the students I had met as a student whom were there because their parents told them to go and gave them the money to do so. Many of them didn't want to be there; they only knew that college was expected of them and they wouldn't resist being pushed into it, considering how many students these days treat college as an extension of high school. I realize that the opinions expressed here seem harsh and the evidence only anecdotal, but these are my personal observations. In the same breath, my former advising professor told me a story of a student years ago who came into his office angry. He asked the student why he was upset and he said he didn't want to be there. My professor pressed him and asked why, and he said it was because his old man was making him go to college. My professor informed him that he was an adult and didn't have to go to college if he didn't want to. The frustrated young man looked at him, nodded, thanked him, said goodbye, and as my former advisor professor testified, he never saw him again. It appears as if at least some people figure out on their own that college isn't for them, hm? - Derek E. Pursell
