There's an old saying, and it's probably already been brought up, that science is about answering the questions of what, where, when and how. Religion tries to address the question of why.
Warren W. Aney Tigard, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of James J. Roper Sent: Thursday, 20 May, 2010 13:46 To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Science and Religion Dogmatic conflict? To reify the idea of a god and call it nature offers no explanation of anything. To say that there are other ways of knowing, rather than logic is a trivial observation that things are sometimes discovered through insight - and that insight normally comes about because the highly trained individual was thinking a lot about it, but the answer didn't really pop out at them until left to "digest." Additional ways of "knowing" all will have to be tested logically. It is easy to make up questions for which there are no answers. That does not make the question interesting. Moral questions are about how we get along, and they can indeed be informed by logic as well as emotion. Finally, asking a why question implies that the question is sensible and an answer exists. I would propose that we may have no reason to think either. Cheers, Jim On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 15:33, Warren W. Aney <a...@coho.net> wrote: > Why is there something rather than nothing? > And why is some of this something aware of itself? > And why is this self aware of the something? > And why does it ask these questions? > > Are these questions best addressed by science or by religion? Or do they > represent some of the areas where science and religion interface and > interconnect? > > Warren W. Aney > Senior Wildlife Ecologist > Tigard, Oregon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news > [mailto:ecolo...@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of James Crants > Sent: Wednesday, 19 May, 2010 07:37 > To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Science and Religion Dogmatic conflict? > > I, too, appreciate Jane's contribution to this conversation. We can only > speculate on the origins of religion, since religion originated long before > written language, or even cave art (if neanderthal and modern human > religion > have a common origin; though I will agree with William Silvert that > religion > probably didn't come about because any gods revealed their existence to our > ancestors). > > However, science can say something about what goes on in the brain when > people have religious experiences, and perhaps it can say something about > why some people seem to need religion while others couldn't be religious if > they wanted to. It can tell us how similar the experience of meditation is > to the experience of prayer, or getting mentally absorbed in an anthill, or > drawing, or playing an instrument, or driving a car, and so on. Based on a > biological understanding of religious experience, plus the archeological > evidence, we can form models of how religion originated and evolved in > modern humans, and how it is relevant to modern life. > > I do think the "naturalist's trance" is basically the same as a religious > experience. I don't know of any hard evidence bearing on that, but the > experience is similar to those I've had from meditation, intense prayer, > playing music, painting pictures, and running much further than a mile or > so. Such experiences say nothing at all about whether there is such a > thing > as divinity, but I think they have a lot to do with the origins of > humanity's belief in divinity. > > Jim Crants > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Wayne Tyson <landr...@cox.net> wrote: > > > Ah-HA! > > > > I think she's GOT IT! By Jove, I think she's got it! The rain in Spain . > . > > . > > > > Eureka! Peak experiences! > > > > As in all art, the concentration of the intellect somehow gets > "processed" > > by our inner resources, and "breaks through" back into the conscious > after > a > > period of gestation and there is a birth of insight. Burning bushes and > > other hallucinations aside, just about all scientific discovery is thus > > produced. > > > > WT > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Shevtsov" <jane....@gmail.com> > > > > To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU> > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 7:48 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Science and Religion Dogmatic conflict? > > > > > > I think it's a mistake to reduce religion to > >> anthropomorphism/explanations and morality/politics. There is a > >> crucial third element -- the human capacity for spiritual (meditative, > >> oceanic, transcendent, pick your favorite adjective) experiences. > >> These experiences are now being studied by psychologists and > >> neuroscientists (look up "neurotheology") and are often connected to > >> experiences in nature. > >> > >> My hypothesis about the origins of such experiences is partially > >> inspired by a passage from E.O. Wilson's book _Biophilia_. "In a twist > >> my mind came free and I was aware of the hard workings of the natural > >> world beyond the periphery of ordinary attention, where passions lose > >> their meaning and history is in another dimension, without people, and > >> great events pass without record or judgment. I was a transient of no > >> consequence in this familiar yet deeply alien world that I had come to > >> love. The uncounted products of evolution were gathered there for > >> purposes having nothing to do with me; their long Cenozoic history was > >> enciphered into a genetic code I could not understand. The effect was > >> strangely calming. Breathing and heartbeat diminished, concentration > >> intensified. It seemed to me that something extraordinary in the > >> forest was very close to where I stood, moving to the surface and > >> discovery. ... I willed animals to materialize and they came > >> erratically into view." > >> > >> What does this passage, which describes an experience I suspect most > >> members of this list have had, most resemble? It sounds a lot like how > >> practitioners of some types of meditation describe their experience. > >> But what is this "naturalist's trance" good for, other than science? > >> Hunting, gathering and looking out for predators! Maybe, just maybe, > >> this was our ancestors' normal state of consciousness and maybe > >> various religious and spiritual practices arose as a way of > >> recapturing this state as, for biological and social reasons, our > >> minds changed. > >> > >> This is, of course, a guess, but what do you folks think? > >> > >> Jane Shevtsov > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ James J. 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