Hello Wayne (and others),
If you're looking for original research on Pleistocene horses in North America, check out would papers by RD Guthrie, WW Dalquest, and BJ MacFadden (for starters)-- a quick Google Scholar search of "Pleistocene horses" will give you a number of sources by these and other authors. There's also this recent paper(http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%253Adoi%252F10.1371%252Fjournal.pbio.0030241) in PLOS on the evolution, systematics, and phylogeography of New World horses, by Weinstock et al. Best wishes, Jacquelyn On 09.14.11, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote: > David and Ecolog: > > Most interesting! I was aware of Eohippus or whatever they call it these days > (pretty far back on the evolutionary bush), and other ancestral forms, but > thought the fossil evidence faded out about 45 million BCE. I would like to > further erode my ignorance by reading Duffy's sources, especially with > respect to fossil evidence from the Pleistocene. A little poking around the > Internet didn't bring up any original research, and the article in Canadian > Geographic didn't cite any sources, alluding to claims that fossils as recent > as 1,000 years BP have been found! I was totally ignorant of this! Of course > he is correct about the most recent introductions by human invaders. > > Of course he is correct with respect to the current species, clearly > introduced from other continents. > > With respect to densities and damage to ecosystems, it's perturbations all > the way down, ain't it? > > WT > > > PS: I know knot the condition of other's knickers, but snickerd when I > checked--lo and behold, there are none as I figured! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David C Duffy" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 12:32 AM > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] a non Ivory Tower view of invasive species -- feral > horses > > > "The Great Plains is good horse habitat even though horses did not evolve > there. " > > Actually I believe they did. Miocene fossil remains of precursors to Equus > are found in the Great Plains, as as well as Pleistocene Equus. I seem to > recall the evolution of equids was shaped by the Plains changing from > woodland savannah to grassland about 15 Ma. The last horse fossils in North > America date to about 10-12,000 years ago and they seemed to vanish with the > other large mammals, perhaps as a result of human actions. Horses were then > reintroduced by Cortez and company and were rapidly adopted by the Plains > Indians, becoming an integral part of their culture. One can get one's > knickers in a knot trying to figure out whether the horse is indigenous or > introduced, invasive or native, feral, alien, or what have you in the Great > Plains. > > > One's time is more profitably sent on interesting questions (besides the > evolutionary ones) such as whether or when horse populations reach local > densities high enough to damage ecosystems, what do we do about it, given > that The Great Plains and the rest of the west are not what they were 12,000 > years ago or even 200 years ago. > > > David Duffy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 5:45 pm > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] a non Ivory Tower view of invasive species -- feral > horses > To: [email protected] > > > All: > > > > Ecologically speaking, horses are a true grasslands animal, > > adaptable to some extent, but not adaptable enough; the > > Intermountain West and the Southwest have few places truly > > suitable for horses. Dayton Hyde, who owned a big ranch in > > southwestern Oregon, moved to the plains to care for "wild" > > (feral) horses http://www.daytonohyde.com/ahomeforwildhors.html . > > > > This is another good example to illustrate that habitat is not > > definable by geography; it is defined by the organisms most > > suited to habitat conditions. The Great Plains is good horse > > habitat even though horses did not evolve there. Their > > requirements are similar to the indigenous bison, the healthy- > > protein animal birthright which our alien forefathers (except my > > grandmother's side) almost killed out for the mess of white- > > bread and breakfast-cereal pottage we industrially farm today, > > so they could probably establish viable populations, especially > > in the absence of enough predators to keep their populations > > healthy. > > > > The feral horses which do survive (many starve, and many are ill- > > suited to the harsh conditions under which they must struggle to > > live, their numbers harshly thinned out to a wilder and wilder > > form by indifferent Nature.) > > > > Personally, I love horses. Ecologically, the western US is very > > poor in suitable habitat, which is almost entirely taken up by > > human, fenced-off uses, forcing them to live a harsher-than- > > normal life in marginal habitat ill-suited to their survival. > > Even though I admire their beauty, grace, and apparent > > toughness, turning domestic horses loose is a cruel act for most > > of them. > > > > Personally, I love pronghorns too; they are better-adapted to > > the marginal, semi-arid, and otherwise harsh habitats of the > > West than horses and cattle (which also are a grasslands animal, > > not a "sagebrush steppe" one). > > > > WT > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Warren W. Aney" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:08 AM > > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] a non Ivory Tower view of invasive > > species -- feral horses > > > > > > For a good statement and some facts on feral horses and donkeys > > go The Wildlife Society sites: > > http://joomla.wildlife.org/documents/positionstatements/Feral.Horses.July..2011.pdf > > > > http://joomla.wildlife.org/documents/policy/feral_horses_1.pdf > > > > The most recent release of domestic horses into the wild > > probably occurred this morning due to someone's inability to > > feed their stock or sell them to a meat processor. > > > > Warren W. Aney > > Senior Wildlife Ecologist > > Tigard, Oregon > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news > > [mailto:[email protected]] <[email protected]]> On Behalf > > Of Hamazaki, > > Hamachan (DFG) > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 September, 2011 01:12 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] a non Ivory Tower view of invasive species > > > > While we are still on invasive species in the US South Western > > Regions, what is everyone's opinion about wild horses in the US? > > They are apparently introduced and became invasive, yet are > > protected by law. > > BLM manages them as invasive species, while there is a law suit > > in the 9th circuit court of Appeals to consider them as native > > species. > > > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028174.300-are-the-wild- > > horses-of-the-american-west-native.html > > > > http://tdn.com/lifestyles/article_71e93474-92ff-11e0-9d41- > > 001cc4c002e0.html > > I always wondered about this issue while I was in NM. > > > > Toshihide "Hamachan" Hamazaki, 濱崎俊秀PhD > > Alaska Department of Fish and Game: アラスカ州漁業野生動物課 > > Division of Commercial Fisheries: 商業漁業部 > > 333 Raspberry Rd. Anchorage, AK 99518 > > Phone: (907)267-2158 > > Cell: (907)440-9934 > > > > > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3894 - Release Date: > > 09/13/11 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3894 - Release Date: 09/13/11 > > -- Jacquelyn Gill(https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/jlgill/web/Home.html) PhD Candidate John W. Williams Lab(http://www.geography.wisc.edu/faculty/williams/lab/) University of Wisconsin - Madison Department of Geography 550 North Park St. Madison, WI 53706 608.890.1188 (phone) 608.265.9331 (fax)
