..."protecting your own ideas for later use" is a statement, in one form or another, that i've heard from quite a few "early-career" biologists over the years...long-story-short...your peers and Established Scientists are very, very bright...it is unlikely that an "idea" is so unique or precious that someone has not mentioned it before in the literature and/or that, while Early Career is wating for the propitious moment, one of her/his very, very bright peers or an Establishe Scientist will fail to come up with the same or a similar "idea"...furthermore, due to changes in international copyright laws & conventions, Intellectual Property rights are less & less protected...better to initiate a "game", to open up new ways of thinking about something...better to get feedback & engage in the discourse...IF the "ideas" do, in fact, turn out to have some utility to Science and/or Industry...a person initiating the discourse will be acknowledged in one way or another, directly or indirectly...clara
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Elsa Youngsteadt <eyoungste...@gmail.com>wrote: > Liane articulates many of the thoughts I also had on this subject. > > I would add that refusing to work independently and creatively as a grad > student--thereby protecting your own ideas for later use--could backfire if > you ever need your colleagues and supervisors to vouch for your ability to > generate and execute independent, creative ideas. > > You can learn important methods and critical thinking from a mentor and a > lab group in the context of a project that is motivated by your own > curiosity and ideas. That, in my opinion, is a favorable situation. > > Of course the correct approach invariably depends on individual > personalities, goals, and unique life situations--grad school is not > one-size-fits-all. > > Cheers, > Elsa > > > > On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Cochran-Stafira, D. Liane > <coch...@sxu.edu>wrote: > > > Aaron, > > I very strongly disagree with your statement about not coming up with > your > > own research idea. My advisor expected all PhD candidates to work on > their > > own projects - not feed off of his. Masters level students were held by > > the hand much more, and they did projects that were spin-offs from my > > mentors line of interest. > > > > PhD's should be "creative" and the best place to learn this is in grad > > school where your creativity can be monitored and mentored. Just working > > as another pair of hands in the lab is a waste of time. My mentor asked > > only to be second author on the first paper that came from the part of > the > > project that involved his greatest level of mentoring and help. He > clearly > > stated that all other papers were solely mine. I have continued to work > > with the same system since grad school, and there has been no issue with > > him stealing my ideas. > > > > I learned an incredible amount by working out how to do the experiments I > > needed to do; how to carry out statistical analyses I never learned about > > in class. I could go on, but you get the idea. I am quite amazed at > your > > strongly negative opinion about this approach to grad school. And, by > the > > way, I am one of the 14% (as reported in the a recent article in > BioScience > > ) of female students who was successful in landing a desired academic > > position - so there was no effect on my career. > > Liane > > > > **************************************** > > D. Liane Cochran-Stafira, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor > > Department of Biological Sciences > > Saint Xavier University > > 3700 West 103rd Street > > Chicago, Illinois 60655 > > > > phone: 773-298-3514 > > fax: 773-298-3536 > > email: coch...@sxu.edu > > http://faculty.sxu.edu/~cochran/ > > > > <http://faculty.sxu.edu/~cochran/> > > > > _______________________________ > > From: Aaron T. Dossey <bugoc...@gmail.com> > > To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:25 PM > > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Advice for 36 year old trying to get into M.S. > > program > > > > If you do for some reason (which I cannot currently imagine) to go to > > graduate school, here is some advice that will help you get the most out > of > > it without putting the future of your career at risk: 1) pick a very > > HANDS-ON professor who spends a lot of time with his or her students and > > postdocs (eg: they spend lots of time in the lab) in a successful lab > with > > a great reputation (lots of publications, with students and postdocs who > > have left it and have successful careers currently who can attribute it > to > > having worked in that lab) and 2) insist that you ONLY will work on work > > that is from the professor's own ideas - from their grants and based on > > their ideas. Do not fall into the trap of working for a professor who > > expects you to come up with your own projects. You are there to learn > from > > them primarily, and also to do parts of their research. If you already > > have a certain skillset and can come up with your own research projects > and > > successfully > > execute them, you do NOT need to be a student (at least in that lab). > > Pick a lab and a professor who have a lot to offer you in the form of > > TRAINING, connections and projects likely to be very fruitful. > > > > IF and when you have your own ideas you want to pursue, keep a log book > of > > those and save those for when you graduate and are on your > own/independent. > > Otherwise, it can get ugly. Many professors will, to put it bluntly, > > steal credit and reward for your ideas and independent work. Might as > well > > avoid that pitfall and keep everyone happy (and keep you learning) by > doing > > whatever work originates from the professor - besides, it's their job to > > drive the research and come up with the ideas. > > > > Basically, pick a prof and lab who seems to have YOUR CAREER INTERESTS at > > heart and act like it. > > > -- Clara B. Jones Director Mammals and Phenogroups (MaPs) Twitter: http://twitter.com/cbjones1943 Cell: -828-279-4429 Blog Profile: http://www.blogger.com/profile/09089578792549394529 Brief CV: http://vertebratesocialbehavior.blogspot.com/2012/10/clara-b-jones-brief-cv.html "Where no estimate of error of any kind can be made, generalizations about populations from sample data are worthless." Ferguson, 1959
