Hi Neahga, To address your first email: I can't speak to all internship wages but Americorps programs offer a livable stipend. I had no financial support after graduation. On my own, in a declining economy I still had a phone bill, credit cards, rent, utilities, newly acquired student loans and food to pay for yet Americorps was very much an option. There are an abundance of social programs that one easily qualifies for as a full-time volunteer (food stamps, help with utilities, firewood, etc.). There is also the option to defer student loan payments while in the program. And if one does their research many programs provide free to cheap housing. I'm not saying it's a walk in the park but it's doable and it taught me a great deal about budgeting and self-reliance along with gaining valuable job experience.
Keep in mind that a great majority of people will never make the wages of a biologist (just for example) in their "real jobs" so it's best not to take these programs for granted. They are real jobs, not just jumping off points from college. I applied for a second term after years in the real world as did several others in my program. Many positions are quite competitive and a graduate degree can give you an edge. Higher paying, full-time, permanent positions are not easy to come by. Going back to do an additional year was an incredibly useful step in my career path. The program I participated in was a feeder into the agency I now work for and a large portion of the professionals I know today are alumni of the same program. Having bills and wanting a "real job" are common place, especially in this economy, but a degree or degrees alone do not entitle one to certain jobs. Pairing valuable and sometimes humbling experience with education are a force to be reckoned with. Without both, expectations should be lower. As for your last question, the agencies that host interns and the like are not necessarily milking the system. Many cannot afford the help without interns and volunteers. In my second term I was placed with the Forest Service. The fisheries department was severely under-funded and Americorps was their best option. They can no longer afford the program and scrape by with occasional seasonal vacancies (pre-existing) and volunteer support. No new positions have been created in the absence of Americorps. For research to continue in a country that does not comprehend the importance of science, agencies must use whatever means they can to move forward. I agree it would be great if some of these positions were paid but there is no simple solution. Perhaps addressing the government sequestration that severely cut natural resource funding (read: jobs!) is the bigger issue. On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Neahga Leonard <[email protected]>wrote: > Tacy, I see your point and it is well made. > > What about the rest of us who are actually in the job market and see so > many of what should be paying jobs going to internships and AmeriCorp > positions instead? > > I personally know far more people in that position than I do (and did both > at the termination of my undergraduate and my graduate studies) who are in > a position to take a non-competitive offer in exchange for the experience > it offers. > > Thanks > > Neahga Leonard > > *There is not just a whole world to explore, there is a whole universe to > explore, perhaps more than one.* > http://writingfornature.wordpress.com/ > > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Tacy Fletcher <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Dear Neahga, I absolutely agree with James. I am a woman in my late 40's > > who, while pursuing my bachelor's degree (which I was attempting for the > > first time in my life) had experience in my chosen field of environment > > restoration and conservation, but was not competitive in my market. We > all > > need a competitive edge, which is what my four terms in Americorp gave > me. > > Besides all the fabulous networking opportunities, Americorp pays the > > education award to help you pay down your loans, and does not prohibit > you > > from earning a wage while working in one of the accepted activities at > the > > same time. More importantly it imparts a hard-work ethic and > > service-learning geared mentality which will give you a competitive edge. > > I wish I could do more Americorp terms, but can't--I'm maxed out. What > I > > would love is a full-time permanent job too, but my field is more > > competitive than when I first entered it, and the government looks > > favorably on ALL the time I > > spent in my field while earning little or nothing in my field. > > Non-profits also look favorably on these hours although they may or may > > not credit them. It is the for-profit industry who may look down their > > nose at it, but that is a misguided attitude. I am now in graduate > school, > > and it is a struggle to remain competitive, but the Americorp experience > > coupled with my Bachelor's Degree/scholarship search/part-time work > > experience has honed my ability to rise to such a challenge. In no way > > when I was involved with it, did it ever take on an odious factor, > because > > I could make choices, adjustments, and volunteer with who I wanted > (within > > certain work-type parameters). > > > > If an activity/volunteer opportunity lacked luster for me, then I > adjusted > > again to find the "right" group of appreciative co-workers. One receives > > the same protections while involved in the volunteer work of Americorp > from > > workman's compensation when injured to protection from sexual harassment > > from contractors/vendors and coworkers. I was involved in the Americorp > > Minimun-time ed award, so someone's experience with traveling around the > > country in one of the other commitments may be different. But one thing > I > > was amazed when I encountered a group of traveling Americorp > > conservationists was that frequently counselors came all the way out to > the > > field to talk individually with the participants about any and all > concerns > > they had about their experience while they were traveling as a group > around > > the US. > > > > I agree with one of the negatives that Neahga brought up about the unpaid > > internship that colleges offer for credit hours. This type of internship > > only benefits the student who is in a position to draw on the wealth of > > their parents or their own trust-fund to pay for their > > home/food/transportation and course costs in order to count the time > > towards course credit which usually costs $800-1600. Poorer students > > cannot afford that, but competitive savvy "hungry" students need to not > > turn up their noses at the Americorp world, when it works very well! > > > > If your university offers Americorp, then it behooves you to find out > more > > about it from the professional who administers it instead of going on > what > > you've heard. If you are not eligible, then please don't knock it. > > > > In the end, isn't the desire to be highly-competitive in an economy that > > doesn't have that many full-time jobs to begin with, what we need to be > > retrained for? > > > > > > Cordially yours, > > > > Tacy Fletcher (uses pseudonym "Cayt Fletch" on facebook) also > > [email protected] > > Fletch > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: James Katz <[email protected]> > > >To: [email protected] > > >Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 8:30 AM > > >Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Jobs, Internships, AmeriCorps, and the like - a > > discussion > > > > > >Hi Neahga, > > > > > >I completely agree that the whole internship route does limit full pay > > jobs > > >for the majority of us looking for work. Many employers seem to prefer > to > > >hire interns who will work for less, sacrificing time training new > people > > >due to the temporary nature of the positions. However it seems that > with > > >the way the economy is right now, for individuals coming straight out of > > >school, these internships are among the best options. > > > > > >Granted I would love to be working full time right now and not as > > Seasonal; > > >however, it seems to me (And I have only been out of school for a short > > >time so I could be wrong) that the funding is just not there to hire as > > >many permanent employees as there are people looking for jobs or even to > > >hire a small fraction of us. Those jobs that are available require at > > >least a few years of experience working, I believe that the internships > > >provide by SCA, AmeriCorps, and other programs provide that required > > >experience and without them many of us would be unemployed or searching > > for > > >work in another field...not by choice, but more so because we must to > > >'survive,' financially that is. > > > > > >I would also like to hear other opinions on this subject. > > > > > >Best, > > >Jim > > > > > >On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Neahga Leonard > > ><[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > >> Hello Fellow Ecologgers, > > >> > > >> There are many posts on Ecolog by people looking for work, and much > good > > >> advice given to these people (I speak from personal experience as I > have > > >> received good advice from some of you). > > >> > > >> One bit of advice that often comes up is to spend some time in an > > >> internship or working for AmeriCorps. Personally, as a graduate of a > > very > > >> competitive MS program and as one who has spent much time searching > for > > >> work within my field and has recently found myself unexpectedly back > in > > the > > >> job hunting fray, I have some issues with both the Internship and > > >> AmeriCorps models. I realize that both are here to stay, but a > > discussion > > >> concerning them and their influence on both the job market and on the > > >> incomes of those of us looking for work that will pay an actual living > > >> wages would be of benefit. > > >> > > >> In general, neither the internship nor the AmeriCorps model is of much > > >> benefit to someone who has expenses and is looking for paid work right > > >> now. Both of these types of "employment" are fantastic for future > jobs, > > >> but they are really geared towards recent graduates who have the > > economic > > >> luxury of not having to make a full living wage. > > >> > > >> In my experience, that is the minority of graduates, and it imposes an > > >> artificial limit of who is able to participate in these activities. > > >> > > >> Second, I and many of my colleagues feel that both internships and > > >> AmeriCorps in particular, actually limit the available jobs. Both > > systems > > >> exchange "experience" for pay and tend to have a high turn-over rate. > > This > > >> is a tremendous frustration for people looking for real work who do > not > > >> have the economic security necessary to accept lower or non-pay in > > exchange > > >> for the experience that these positions offer. > > >> > > >> Recently there have been a number of interesting articles in the news > > and > > >> some moderately high profile law-suits over the non-payment aspect of > > >> internships in other fields, particularity within journalism. The > > concerns > > >> raised by these news items and suits is more far-reaching than most > > >> realize. > > >> > > >> I am in no way disagreeing with the idea that internships and > AmeriCorps > > >> offer excellent experience, often do good work, and are personally > > >> rewarding. > > >> > > >> I would like to hear your opinions concerning their impact on the real > > job > > >> market and whether programs like this that offer non-competitive wages > > do > > >> more harm than good for graduates needing paying jobs. > > >> > > >> Thanks from someone who thinks there needs to be more paying jobs out > > >> there. > > >> > > >> Also, for those of you searching for work (or internships) I have a > page > > >> dedicated to job-hunting resources: > > >> > > >> > > > http://writingfornature.wordpress.com/links-to-interesting-blogs/finding-work/ > > >> > > >> > > >> Neahga Leonard > > >> > > >> *There is not just a whole world to explore, there is a whole universe > > to > > >> explore, perhaps more than one.* > > >> http://writingfornature.wordpress.com/ > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
