What you say regarding math and biology is not without merit. All life is governed by natural laws which are essentially mathematical equations. Obviously, we do not know all those equations, but many are taught in physics, math and chemistry. When we see things that seem to not follow mathematical/statistical convention, in other words things acting counter to what logic suggests, you can bet your bottom dollar that it is due to our imperfection in observing and adequately describing the system with which we are working.
For example, some years ago I published a paper on reproductive-immunity trade-offs in a male frog (Acris blanchardi). I challenged the immune system with a novel antigen, and then tracked changes in spermatogenesis. Now, if I had not completely described the reproductive cycle and aspects of the life cycle in these frogs ahead of time, my deductions could/would likely have been completely different than what I got. Why? levels of spermatogenesis are variable seasonally, the frogs are largely an annual species in the South, and environmental variables such as temp can turn off reproduction! All of these factors are obviously governed by mathematical formula that I never bothered to discover, but had I not known about these other factors, I would have found no difference in reproduction under immune insult if I had not timed it when sperm was being produced and processed. There are a lot of studies that probably make these kinds of errors, but we are so blind to the importance of descriptive studies in ecology, that we often forget that before you can start testing a system, you need to know something about that system, so if it has not been described, you better do it first! Malcolm On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 5:47 AM, Carlos Navarro <[email protected]> wrote: > Forgive me if I'm a bit simple but as I don’t have educational > responsibilities allows me to be reckless (Unfortunately I have not any > responsibility in science now too). Broadly speaking, I understand that > biology is not physics or chemistry. Many physics study plays with the > infinite term since its field of action is the universe, "infinites > universes". So if something happens and it is shown mathematically, based > on statistical probabilities, has to happen. The infinity has a very > limited application in biology since their field is the life on earth. So > if something happens and it is shown mathematically don´t have to occur in > biology. Here acts the common sense and empirical experimentation. This has > led, in my opinion, to some biologists and education systems to > underestimate, stupidly, to mathematics. I say stupidly because mathematics > is the language of science and the biological facts need besides common > sense be refuted mathematically. I.e. The undergraduate study of biology in > Spain mandatory had at first year with 12 credits of mathematics, 12 > credits of chemistry, and 12 credits of physics (applied to biological > processes). In recent years the studies have been adapted to "european > system", seeking unification towards more practical and less theoretical. > Currently undergraduate study of biology have 4.5 credits of math, 6 > credits of chemistry and 6 credits of physics applied to biological > processes. In my opinion to prioritize the practical knowledge reducing > basic theoretical knowledge in undergraduate studies of biology is a > mistake. To implement their practical knowledge the students could do a MS > and PhD. Almost in Spain we have gone from a system with few practical > knowledge to a system that prioritizes the practical over the theoretical > knowledge. We tipped the balance the other side. > > > > Pd.- Regarding to teachers who don’t speak good English. I can understand > to the students, but more difficult is having to explain and defend an idea > in a language that isn’t your mother language. How many scientists English > speakers have tried to defend his doctoral disertation or their results at > a congress or journal in French, German or Spanish…? This could be a > mandatory exercise in every good university UK, USA... I think that it > would make to some ones more cautious, more understanding and more polite > when listening to a non-English speaking or acting as referee. > > > > I know that English is currently the language of science. But the fact that > science can not be done unless you have a good level of English is a huge > handicap for many scientists who studied others languages as Spanish, > French or German when they were child. I.e. for a Spanish who don’t studied > English when was child is almost impossible to speak good English. It is a > problem of brain. The Spanish language use 5 vowels and the English > language12. How many great ideas and scientific have been lost because of > that English is the only one language of science? > > > > All the best. > > > > Carlos > > > 2013/4/13 malcolm McCallum <[email protected]> > >> Something of interest to think about. Before you can mathematically >> model a system, you must first construct a conceptual model, hence >> Wilson's comments. Just like most sports where defense is half the >> game, and you can be a defensive specialist, a non-hitting pitcher (in >> american league) or a designated batter who never fields; in science >> you can become a conceptual or mathematical specialist. >> >> Having said this, my advice to all students is to keep taking math >> until you stop getting Cs. If you get a C (or even lower) in an >> advanced math course, few are going to ask why you got the lower >> grade, and most will admire that you gave it a shot. >> >> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Trish Hunt <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Jacksonville University offered a course in Statistics for the >> Biological Sciences. I learned a lot from that course and desperately >> wished that there was a similar Calculus course. I would really like to >> advance my knowledge in Calculus so that I may continue to Calc II and III, >> just to open the door for a Meteorological Masters, but I totally did NOT >> understand my required general Calc class. I worked "around" my calc test >> problems using any method I could remember from Algebra, Geometry, Trig, or >> trial and error in order to get a correct answer. I just didn't understand >> how Calc worked. I know I will eventually retake it in order to replace >> the low C I earned in the class...but I hope to find a biological/marine >> science geared Calculus course so that I can better understand the >> material....now that I know those specialized courses in Calc exsist! >> Thank you for starting this thread! I had no idea such a course existed. >> > >> > Cheers! >> > Trish >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Robert Ford <[email protected]> >> > To: [email protected] >> > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 10:44 AM >> > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Calculus for Biology Majors >> > >> > >> > I would love if more institutions offered math courses tailored to >> specific fields of study. >> > >> > I can say that as an undergraduate, I did not fair well in my general >> calculus course because I did not see the application of it for the natural >> resources realm. I also feel that teachers/teaching assistants play a huge >> factor. For my one required calculus course, I had a teaching assistant >> that was not fluent in English that taught my recitations as well as the >> teacher, and it was incredibly difficult to understand concepts and how >> they might apply. That opens up a whole different can of worms, but the >> general principle is that teachers should try to meet students half-way >> when it comes to enthusiasm and real world applications. >> > >> > I feel that tailored math courses would help many students realize why >> math is so important in the first place. >> > >> > Rob >> > >> > >> > ________________________________________ >> > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [ >> [email protected]] on behalf of Sarah Shannon [ >> [email protected]] >> > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 8:51 AM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Calculus for Biology Majors >> > >> > When I was getting my B.S. in Plant Biology at the University of >> California, Davis, we were required to >> > take a full year of Calculus. They had an excellent course called >> "Calculus for Biology Majors". It was >> > quite rigorous, and required a lot of work from us, but was the best >> math course I've ever taken. All >> > questions were in the form of word problems (e.g., given the following >> information, how often must a >> > patient take the drug to maintain a concentration level above 100ppm in >> the blood?). I highly >> > recommend courses like this for biology programs. I can think of ways >> to adapt physics and statistics >> > courses in a similar manner. >> > >> > Sarah Shannon >> > Indiana University >> >> >> >> -- >> Malcolm L. McCallum >> Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry >> School of Biological Sciences >> University of Missouri at Kansas City >> >> Managing Editor, >> Herpetological Conservation and Biology >> >> "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - >> Allan Nation >> >> 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert >> 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, >> and pollution. >> 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction >> MAY help restore populations. >> 2022: Soylent Green is People! >> >> The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) >> Wealth w/o work >> Pleasure w/o conscience >> Knowledge w/o character >> Commerce w/o morality >> Science w/o humanity >> Worship w/o sacrifice >> Politics w/o principle >> >> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >> contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and >> destroy all copies of the original message. >> -- Malcolm L. McCallum Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry School of Biological Sciences University of Missouri at Kansas City Managing Editor, Herpetological Conservation and Biology "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - Allan Nation 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, and pollution. 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction MAY help restore populations. 2022: Soylent Green is People! The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) Wealth w/o work Pleasure w/o conscience Knowledge w/o character Commerce w/o morality Science w/o humanity Worship w/o sacrifice Politics w/o principle Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
