David,
Thanks.
Also, my posting the URL to this list does not imply or mean that I have
taken any position relative to the success/failure of any of these efforts.
After all, success/failure is only in the eyes of the implementer/user and
not from casual outside observers. My purpose was only to provide a
perspective on the myriad efforts already well under way by many
consorta/associations/etc. to develop standard vocabularies for their
specific business function and/or business sector.
While I agree that RosettaNet always seems to be held up as the stellar
success, I think the jury is still out on this one too!
Rachel
Rachel,
A minor typo on the xml web URL, should be a space between stdlist and will,
will is not part of the URL. Most of the
schema postings are from the W3C. Rosettanet is always pointed to as an XML
success which it arguably is but I would keep
in mind Rosettanet has a paid staff compared to most industry trade assoc
that are volunteer. As you know setting standards
is a lot of slow, hard work.
Dave Frenkel
Principal Consultant
Cap Gemini Ernst & Young
425-260-5030
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Foerster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 1:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: XML Article Question
David,
Your wish is being fulfilled, but perhaps not exactly as you describe it
below. There are literally hundreds of various organizations, consorta,
etc., (RosettaNet being one of the most visible) that are and have been
describing XML tags and their meaning for either vertical industries or
business functions. When you have the time, a visit to http://www.xml.com or
more directly, http://www.xml.com/pub/q/stdlistwill expose you to some of
these efforts.
I personally believe this makes sense, since it's in these
organizations/consorta that the business knowledge resides and where the
parties that will be implementing XML-based information exchanges play.
If the world wanted and could/would use a single standard business message,
say for example, a purchase order, then we wouldn't have thousands of
variations on the X12 850. Thus, a single common standard for any given
business message, is in my opinion, not only not achievable, but totally
unrealistic.
Rachel
It is interesting to see the Listserv explode with opinions on various =
subjects like XML. Whatever the transport
method (EDI, XML, 'ABC') they all have similar business issues that have =
traditionally inflated the cost of implementing these technologies and =
XML is no different. What I believe needs to happen is the same =
organizations that helped standardize vertical EDI transactions (UCC, =
CIDX, PIDX, TCIF, HEDIC, WEDI, X12N, etc) need to establish business =
dictionaries as to what an XML tag means. For example is the 'ship =
date' the date the product is packaged, put on the dock, loaded on a =
truck, when the truck left the dock, or when the truck left the company
lot. Almost every company/industry has its 'jargon' that is a barrier =
to EDI or XML.
Dave Frenkel =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Susan Carley Oliver=20
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:56 AM
Subject: XML Article Question
I'm curious -=20
=20
"There really is no way to validate the =
data tags until you try to part them, if you
can," says Steven Dobson, a software =
engineer for Ironside Technologies
=20
Should that have read "until you try to **parse** them"?
Susan Carley Oliver
1500 SW Park Avenue, #229
Portland, OR 97201
503.243.5553
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>It is interesting to see the Listserv explode with opinions on =
various=20
subjects like XML. Whatever the transport</DIV>
<DIV>method (EDI, XML, 'ABC') they all have similar business issues that =
have=20
traditionally inflated the cost of implementing these technologies and =
XML is no=20
different. What I believe needs to happen is the same =
organizations=20
that helped standardize vertical EDI transactions (UCC, CIDX, PIDX, =
TCIF, HEDIC,=20
WEDI, X12N, etc) need to establish business dictionaries as to what an =
XML tag=20
means. For example is the 'ship date' the date the product is =
packaged,=20
put on the dock, loaded on a truck, when the truck left the dock, =
or when=20
the truck left the company</DIV>
<DIV>lot. Almost every company/industry has its 'jargon' that =
is=20
a barrier to EDI or XML.</DIV>
<DIV>Dave Frenkel </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"=20
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Susan Carley =
Oliver</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"=20
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 31, =
2001 9:56=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> XML Article =
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D20135617-31012001><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm=20
curious - </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D20135617-31012001><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
=
size=3D2><BR> =
&=
nbsp; =20
"There really is no way to validate the data tags until you try to =
part them,=20
if=20
=
you<BR> =
&=
nbsp; =20
can," says Steven Dobson, a software engineer for Ironside=20
Technologies</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D20135617-31012001><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Should that have read "until you try to **parse**=20
them"?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Susan Carley Oliver</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1500 SW Park Avenue, =
#229</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Portland, OR 97201</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>503.243.5553</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">susan.carley.oli=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C08B70.8A65CFA0--
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2651.75">
<TITLE>RE: XML Article Question</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Rachel,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>A minor typo on the xml web URL, should be a space =
between stdlist and will, will is not part of the URL. Most of =
the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>schema postings are from the W3C. Rosettanet =
is always pointed to as an XML success which it arguably is but I would =
keep</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>in mind Rosettanet has a paid staff compared to most =
industry trade assoc that are volunteer. As you know setting =
standards</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>is a lot of slow, hard work.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dave Frenkel</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Principal Consultant</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cap Gemini Ernst & Young</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>425-260-5030</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Rachel Foerster [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A>]<=
/FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 1:04 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: XML Article Question</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>David,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Your wish is being fulfilled, but perhaps not exactly =
as you describe it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>below. There are literally hundreds of various =
organizations, consorta,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>etc., (RosettaNet being one of the most visible) =
that are and have been</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>describing XML tags and their meaning for either =
vertical industries or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>business functions. When you have the time, a visit =
to <A HREF=3D"http://www.xml.com" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.xml.com</A> or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>more directly, <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.xml.com/pub/q/stdlistwill" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.xml.com/pub/q/stdlistwill</A> expose you =
to some of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>these efforts.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I personally believe this makes sense, since it's in =
these</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>organizations/consorta that the business knowledge =
resides and where the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>parties that will be implementing XML-based =
information exchanges play.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If the world wanted and could/would use a single =
standard business message,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>say for example, a purchase order, then we wouldn't =
have thousands of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>variations on the X12 850. Thus, a single common =
standard for any given</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>business message, is in my opinion, not only not =
achievable, but totally</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>unrealistic.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Rachel</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>It is interesting to see the Listserv explode with =
opinions on various =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>subjects like XML. Whatever the transport</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>method (EDI, XML, 'ABC') they all have similar =
business issues that have =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>traditionally inflated the cost of implementing =
these technologies and =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>XML is no different. What I believe =
needs to happen is the same =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>organizations that helped standardize vertical EDI =
transactions (UCC, =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>CIDX, PIDX, TCIF, HEDIC, WEDI, X12N, etc) need to =
establish business =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>dictionaries as to what an XML tag means. For =
example is the 'ship =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>date' the date the product is packaged, put on the =
dock, loaded on a =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>truck, when the truck left the dock, or when the =
truck left the company</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>lot. Almost every company/industry has its =
'jargon' that is a barrier =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>to EDI or XML.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dave Frenkel =3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> ----- Original Message -----=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> From: Susan Carley Oliver=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:56 =
AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> Subject: XML Article Question</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> I'm curious -=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =3D20</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT =
SIZE=3D2> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; "There really is no way to =
validate the =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>data tags until you try to part them, if you</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; can," says Steven Dobson, =
a software =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>engineer for Ironside Technologies</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> Should that have read "until you try to =
**parse** them"?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> Susan Carley Oliver</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> 1500 SW Park Avenue, #229</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> Portland, OR 97201</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> 503.243.5553</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
[EMAIL PROTECTED]</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
Transitional//EN"></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><HTML><HEAD></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><META content=3D3D"text/html; =
charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type></FONT>
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<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2></HEAD></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><DIV>It is interesting to see the Listserv =
explode with opinions on =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>various=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>subjects like XML. Whatever the =
transport</DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><DIV>method (EDI, XML, 'ABC') they all have =
similar business issues that =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>have=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>traditionally inflated the cost of implementing =
these technologies and =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>XML is no=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>different.&nbsp;&nbsp; What I believe needs =
to happen is the same =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>organizations=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>that helped standardize vertical EDI transactions =
(UCC, CIDX, PIDX, =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>TCIF, HEDIC,=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>WEDI, X12N, etc) need to establish business =
dictionaries as to what an =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>XML tag=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>means.&nbsp; For example is the 'ship date' the =
date the product is =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>packaged,=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>put on the dock, loaded on a truck,&nbsp;when =
the truck left the dock, =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>or when=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the truck left =
the&nbsp;company</DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><DIV>lot.&nbsp;&nbsp;Almost every =
company/industry has its 'jargon' that =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>is=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>a&nbsp;barrier to EDI or XML.</DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><DIV>Dave Frenkel&nbsp; =
</DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><BLOCKQUOTE=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px"></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt =
arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: =
10pt arial; font-color: =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>black"><B>From:</B>=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <A href=3D3D"<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:susan.ca=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A>"=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Susan Carley =
=3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Oliver</A> </DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt =
arial"><B>To:</B> <A=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> href=3D3D"<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]</=
A>"=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> =
</DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt =
arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 31, =
=3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>2001 9:56=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> AM</DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt =
arial"><B>Subject:</B> XML Article =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Question</DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><SPAN =
class=3D3D20135617-31012001><FONT color=3D3D#000000 =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I'm=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> curious - =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><SPAN =
class=3D3D20135617-31012001><FONT color=3D3D#000000 =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>face=3D3DArial=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><FONT=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>size=3D3D2><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&am=
p;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=3D</FONT>=
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> "There really is no way to validate the =
data tags until you try to =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>part them,=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> if=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>you<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&am=
p;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=3D</FONT>=
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> can," says Steven Dobson, a software =
engineer for Ironside=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> Technologies</FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><FONT =
size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><SPAN =
class=3D3D20135617-31012001><FONT color=3D3D#000000 =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>face=3D3DArial=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> size=3D3D2>Should that have read =
"until you try to **parse**=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
them"?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2>Susan Carley Oliver</FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2>1500 SW Park Avenue, =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>#229</FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2>Portland, OR&nbsp; =
97201</FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2>503.243.5553</FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2><A=3D20</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>href=3D3D"<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:susan.ca=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A>">susan.carley.oli=3D</FONT>=
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A></FONT></DIV></FO=
NT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT=
ML></FONT>
</P>
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=3D=3D</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To contact the list owner: <A =
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</FONT>
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HREF=3D"http://www.mail-archive.com/edi-l%40listserv.ucop.edu/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/edi-l%40listserv.ucop.edu/=
</A></FONT>
</P>
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