Ken, Interesting points, but I think you lose a lot of credibility on both sides of this debate when you don't know what EDI stands for (electronic data interchange, not interface) and that most XML business document standards these days are expressed in schemas, and not in DTDs.
At any rate, I think you missed the point of at least my posting, if not some of the others. I said the article made some very valid points, but except for one they were all technical. Companies don't change things just because one technology is inherently superior to another. They change because one will provide them more business benefits than another. If you want to have a real conversation on this topic, we need to start talking about specific business advantages of XML over EDI. The evolution from EDI to XML will happen when major EDI hubs perceive that there's a reasonable ROI in forcing their suppliers to migrate from EDI to XML, and not a day sooner. I'm sure that day will come eventually, but as long as hacks like the writer of "Why EDI Must Die" keep writing XML love letters on the technical benefits and don't tie them into business benefits they aren't going to move much of anyone. Myself, I don't care very much. I'm very adaptable and am reasonably proficient, if not a master, in both technologies. But, most of my business still comes from good old EDI and not from XML. Cheers, Mike At 01:46 PM 12/17/2004 -0800, Ken Pinard wrote: >These comments the last few days make it sound like XML is in a conspiracy >to replace EDI. It sounds more like people trying to convince themselves >that the world will never change. That their computer technology is the only >what it can be done. I have been doing development for a long time, the only >thing for sure is that everything does eventually change. > >I heard the same types of comments form COBOL, FORTRAN, and Assembly >programmers. Certain that they were absolutely safe in their jobs and market >place. Nothing would replace Mini-Computers (except there are none left >now). ARPA-Net would never be useful out side of the academic world (except >it became the Internet). > >Interesting that you mention about Microsoft incorporating XML in to their >stuff. Well, it already drives their websites. It is the backbone of their >new SQL Server. It is the interchange format for all the web services. All >of their development languages can and do use XML. All without hiring people >to manually read the XML for processing. I wonder what else the need to >convert to XML to meet your standards of use. > >XML is excellent to use when a standard is not available. XML is also easy >to use when a standard is available. The advantage of XML over EDI is that >XML can follow the standard but allow for some flexibility so that the >messages are not discarded for minor formatting issues. The generation of >XML is easy. I have generated both XML and EDI. The XML code was smaller and >easier. > >Wouldn't it be nice to not have to use VANs? I know the VANs won't agree and >I understand why. I find it so nice to communicate with companies using web >services. Using XML and their standards (a DTD document). I can validate the >XML transmission before sending it. Thus, I know it will not be rejected. > >EDI does stands for Electronic Data Interface. It was needed and useful when >created. This does not mean that the final solution is here. Or that a >better Electronic Data Interface will not come along. > >You are right that until some large corporation changes their EDI to XML, >there will not be much of a change. But when the change happens will you be >able to keep pace? > >I am sure I am going to be flamed over this, but people have to realize that >the world marches on with or with out them. Learn, grow and prosper with the >new technology. > >Ken Pinard >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > _____ > >From: Rob McHattie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:43 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Article - Why EDI Must Die > > >Do you suppost devx.com gets at kick back on pro XML articles? > >Doesn't EDI stand for Electronic Data Interchange? Isn't XML part of EDI? >Oh, thats right: Because of the flexibility related to what XML can send, >the receiver needs to manually read the documents. I guess that isn't >considered EDI. Whenever an article says that XML will replace EDI, I know >the writer does not understand what he/she is saying nor do they understand >what EDI is. > >The real problem with XML is that companies currently need a staff to >process manual transactions and a staff to process EDI transactions. Why >would they want to add a staff to process XML transactions that take a small >percentage of transactions from EDI and a small percentage from manual? >Until the Wal-Marts of the world require XML, it will not catch on for what >is currently ANSI-X12 or EDIFACT EDI. > >I like XML for transactions where standards do not now exist. I also think >XML could someday make EDI transparent to users, provided Microsoft wants to >imbed XML in their communications. > >My guess would be that future communications enhancements will make both XML >and ANSI-X12 EDI obsolete. But I do not see much migration from current EDI >trading partnerships for at least the next five years. > >Rob McHattie > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "EDI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:49 PM >Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Article - Why EDI Must Die > > > > > > Another laughable article on why XML is better than EDI. Does devx.com > > compensate people for their opinions? Has Jones ever integrated any > > application between two businesses? Love that page 2 "XML's Problems", > > hey wait, turns out XML doesn't really have any problems. Should be > > obvious to everyone that XML is better. I know I'm now convinced. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! > > http://my.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: ><SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> > > Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. >Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: ><SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> >Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L > > > > >Yahoo! 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