This pie is being sliced pretty thin. It's obvious the Internet has lowered the cost of entry for do it yourself connections, and the VANs piece of the pie is getting smaller, but there still exists as every company has a different level of technology aversion and new software/hardware get's easier to use everyday.
Fax - god forbid
Web Portal - Low Volume
VAN - Medium
Direct - High
Regards,
-Steve
"Nathan Camp" To:
"Travis Truax", EDI-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc:
Subject: RE:
[EDI-L] <Misc> Current Matrix of VANS - What's Obsolete?
03/24/2005 01:50 PM
Thanks Travis,
Good point. I was thinking of our smallest clients. They are doing
non-integrated EDI for pure compliance with one or two of their biggest
clients. These kinds of companies typically need a bit of help deciphering
where to get EDI guides, what the guides mean, what an ISA qual/ID is, how
to track down missing transactions or broken connections, etc. I'm assuming
if these businesses are not calling their VANs for assistance, they'll
probably call their trading partner first, and their consultant/AS2
software provider second.
With this kind of company in mind, do any of the hubs on this list have
business thresholds in place that help dictate whether it's worth to go
direct vs. through the VAN? Would hubs that want to go 100% AS2 (as an
example) consider offering VAN connections as a type of contingency to
reduce vendor phone support? What are some of the additional factors you
hubs are looking at to help guide your business decisions? Are these
discussions led by the EDI staff or some other group (like the CFO)?
Thanks for the input,
Nathan Camp
Softshare
-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Truax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 5:17 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [EDI-L] <Misc> Current Matrix of VANS - What's Obsolete?
"Small businesses can't necessarily hire a full time network administrator
to keep the HTTP servers up, and if they could, that administrator's one
year salary could equal 15 years of VAN fees (if you're using the right
VAN)."
If you already have someone taking care of your translator, managing VAN
connectivity, and the hardware that goes with it, AS2 is
not going to add much complexity to things. Everything in the world has its
own complexities, and whether you are replacing an expired certificate with
a partner or calling a van to diagnose a communication script problem-
you're still having to work through *something*.
If you don't have anyone taking care of those things, you are most likely
paying a premium for service somewhere along the line.
(software maintenance, mapping fees, re-keying information, outsourced
label generation, etc.)
Travis-
-----Original Message-----
From: Nathan Camp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 8:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [EDI-L] <Misc> Current Matrix of VANS - What's Obsolete?
James,
Funny that, come to think of it, I have a telephone in my office, at
home, and in my pocket (all signs of an adaptable technology). I
think it was first introduced in 1875, and is more popular now than
at it's birth. Some technology get better with age.
I agree with you that AS2 provides some amazing benefits for the
right-sized company. I don't necessarily agree that all businesses
will benefit. Small businesses can't necessarily hire a full time
network administrator to keep the HTTP servers up, and if they could,
that administrator's one year salary could equal 15 years of VAN fees
(if you're using the right VAN). This is where I see the VA part of
VAN still shining brightly. But Cleo LexiCom and iSoft are nice plays
that help scoop more of these smaller businesses into the exciting
world of Internet exchanges of EDI and XML. And they do have a nice
reseller community that could mitigate some of the network admin
costs associated with an on-your-own exchange of transactions. Should
be interesting to watch the continued shaping of market forces on
this ever-evolving industry we love.
Cheers,
Nathan Camp
Softshare
-----Original Message-----
From: James Hatcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 6:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED];
[email protected]
Subject: RE: [EDI-L] <Misc> Current Matrix of VANS - Obsolete anyway
Just to add a spin to this;
VAN EDI technology is well over 20 years old now. With the rise of
the Internet, AS2 (see other recent thread) and other Internet
communication technologies provide secure, authenticated ways of
exchanging standards compliant data that replace the obsolete VAN
methodology. With a similar (or lower) investment you get a
communication ability with no VAN fees. Adding work flows, event
driven processes and exception management to the data exchanged
increases the value of electronic data exponentially. Can't do that
with the old VAN mail box model, doesn't work.
A few years back there was a hue and cry that "EDI is dead" this of
course was untrue. EDI will always exist in some standards compliant
format however what is happening is the death of VAN's. Obsolete
technology & process. It was great when there were no other options.
Think about it, do you have any piece of technology or software in
your company that is over 20 years old? (Other than in the display
case)
One of the reasons IBM sold it's VAN to GXS is because the market is
shrinking. GXS continues to try to offer a hybrid VAN / Web EDI
solution to maintain their VAN cash cow but emerging markets like
China refuse to do VAN EDI and are going with Internet based
solutions. VAN's are loathe to go to a pure Internet offering because
it doesn't have the reoccurring revenue stream traditional VAN EDI
has. They will resist and milk the cow till it goes dry.
I can hear the argument "but the big guys only do VAN EDI," not true.
Big companies need a significant portion of their suppliers connected
for APS and SCM solutions to be accurate. It used to be good enough
to just have your Tier 1 suppliers on EDI, no more, competition is
too fierce. Small and medium companies won't do VAN EDI due to the
cost & technical challenges involved. The trend for Internet based
solutions continues to grow and the big guys in most verticals have
pilots or active programs to phase out their VAN EDI connections over
time.
Save a copy of that VAN list, Tier 1 or not it will be a collectors
item in the not too distant future. Take a snap shot & stick it in
the box with your museum pictures of Dinosaurs. :-)
James Hatcher
Seeburger
At 01:20 PM 3/22/2005 -0500, Glen Haywood wrote:
In the good old days, Value Added Networks (VANs) maintained a
pretty
exclusive "club membership" so as to protect themselves and
their customers'
data. Tier 1 VANs signed and maintained quite extensive
Interconnect
Agreements that laid out terms of interchange of data including
but not
limited to mailbagging, traceability of files, minimum volume
of activity,
established 'store & forward' applications under their own
control, and so
on.
The requirements were set high so that not just anyone could
"slap a PC into
their basement " and claim VAN status.
Unfortunately, as EDI demands were increased and technology
advancements in
both hardware and communications were achieved, it seems that
you could
"slap a PC anywhere" and claim VAN as your business. Foolish
enough as it
seems, some Tier 1's accepted VAN status claims from these
small service
centers and began to provide interconnects with them. This is
not only a
violation of the intent of the original Interconnect
Agreements, but had
resulted in lessened security, more "lost data" and similar
problems because
many new VANs simply could not manage nor see the reason to
create services
like mailbag capabilities in the first place.
We now have a whole series of players in the VAN world who
actually are
merely resellers of some of the old Tier 1 VAN services, yet
claim pure VAN
status.
The North American list of Tier 1 VANs consisted of GEIS,
Sterling/Commerce,
IBM/Advantis, MCI; Traderoute; Commport; AT&T and few others.
Most are still
around under new names perhaps, whereas others have merely been
gobbled up
in a consolidation of the business.
Part of the issue with EDI is now the proliferation of wannabe
VANs who
just cannot deliver the services.
Glen Haywood
General Manager, Sales
Commport Communications Int'l, inc.
(905) 727-6782 ext.2206
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.commport.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [EDI-L] <Misc> Current Matrix of VANS
Glen,
What and who defines a Tier 1 VAN?
Thanks,
-Steve
"Glen Haywood"
To:
leem, "'Michael Josiah'", EDI-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject: RE:
[EDI-L] <Misc> Current Matrix of VANS
03/22/2005 10:29 AM
Please respond to
glenh
Lee,
While the EDI directory is a useful tool, some of the
information can be
misleading. Case in point, there are 12 companies listed as
VAN's whereby
only 3 of them are recognized as a Tier 1 VAN. There should be
a screening
process prohibiting certain companies that sell themselves off
as a VAN as
Stephen Lee has pointed out. The listing process only allows
for a company
to list under 6 categories. Any full service company like
Commport has
difficulty pigeon holeing themselves into such narrowly defined
categories.
BTW, Commport Communications is a recognized Tier 1 VAN and I
am the POC.
Glen Haywood
General Manager, Sales
Commport Communications Int'l, inc.
(905) 727-6782 ext.2206
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.commport.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Mrkonjic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:35 PM
To: 'Michael Josiah'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [EDI-L] <Misc> Current Matrix of VANS
Michael,
You will find a comprehensive list in the EDI Vendor Directory.
Visit
www.edidirectory.com.
Regards,
Lee Mrkonjic
Publisher - EDI Vendor Directory
416.657.4426
416.391.0865 (fax)
www.edidirectory.com
www.vantagepoint.ca
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Josiah [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: March 21, 2005 5:04 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [EDI-L] <Misc> Current Matrix of VANS
>
>
>
>Perhaps someone in the EDI List world has put together a
>document of current POC's for the active VANS.
>
>I contacted Sears the other day, and when I asked about the
>VAN was told that they are now using "G International"
>formually known as IBM. That was news to me. Who is "G
>International?"
>
>What other recent surprises are there? I know that a few
>months ago Inovis acquired QRS. What else is going on in the
>ever changing world of VANS? If someone has a current Matrix
>of this and/or a migration list of who has been aquired, I
>would appreciate it.
>
>Thanks in Advance,
>
>Shalom,
>
>Michael Josiah
>
>
>
>
>
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