e role of the statistician is to advise the person with the statistical problem on how to treat it, often devising new algorithms in the process. It is also to question the investigator about the assumptions, and to point out what assumptions make little difference.
you sure put the role of the statistician down towards the bottom of the barrel ... sometimes in fact, the stat person is a co equal participant in the research or questions being explored ... stat people can have ideas too
you make it sound like the statistician is merely a passive ingredient ...
>You can't expect every person who has a legitimate interest in "data" to be >a "true" statistician ... just like we can't expect every person who has a >valid interest in weather phenomena ... to know all the intricate facts and >"history" about weather ...
I never claimed this. The investigator, however, is the one who must make the probability assumptions about the data.
well, i would reinterpret this as ... it is the investigator who is primarily responsible for trying to outline and detail as much as possible ... WHAT he/she is trying to accomplish ... what he/she is primarily interested in exploring ... BUT, the stat person should not just sit idly by ... they should try to HELP the party in seeing what might be reasonable and unreasonable ways to define/collect/examine the data ...
It is often the case that the assumptions are even more important than the data. It can even be the case that for some aspects the data is more important, for others the assumptions.
ok ... but, the statistician can help in trying to weigh in on what is the case in that particular situation ...
As a coauthor, it is still important not to use statistical convenience for making assumptions which affect the results, rather than going back to the subject matter field.
i certainly agree with this ... BUT, this does not mean the statistician has to sit closed lipped and not try to help the content person frame the ideas/questions in ways that analysis is appropriate (and not) for ...
should not the penultimate goal be to help the client ... do the best he/she can? or, be honest and say to the client ... this is a mess too large to salvage ...
My "commandments" bear repeating.
I am often requested to repost my five commandments. These are posted here without exegesis.
For the client:
1. Thou shalt know that thou must make assumptions.
ok ... makes sense
2. Thou shalt not believe thy assumptions.
then why make assumptions?
For the consultant:
3. Thou shalt not make thy client's assumptions for him.
well, the consultant should not do the client's project ... THAT i agree with
4. Thou shalt inform thy client of the consequences
of his assumptions.
but, in #2 ... you said for the client not to believe their assumptions ... so, does the client make assumptions or not? if the client makes a stupid assumption ... that you said he/she must make ... shouldn't the consultant speak up and help the client reshape or consider assumptions that seem to make more sense?
There are, unfortunately, many fields in which much of the activity consists of using statistical procedures without regard for any assumptions.
sure, this boils down to doing stuff poorly ... not just bad assumptions ...
>I do agree that software makes "output" easy to come by but, that is a >totally different matter ...
Not really. The oracle only answers the questions asked, not the real questions.
how can we know ad hoc ... that this is the case? i would say that many questions are about as fully answered by standard output ... as one can get ... others, not so ...
one can't make a blanket statement that applies in all (or even necessarily the majority) cases
One does not just approach the altar, pay the priest his fee, present the sacrifice, and expect a miracle to provide the state of the universe.
depends on the religious convictions you hold ...
-- This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Deptartment of Statistics, Purdue University [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 . . ================================================================= Instructions for joining and leaving this list, remarks about the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES, and archives are available at: . http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/ . =================================================================
---------------------------------------------------------- Dennis Roberts Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
. . ================================================================= Instructions for joining and leaving this list, remarks about the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES, and archives are available at: . http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/ . =================================================================
