On 10 Dec 2003 07:30:40 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donald Burrill) wrote:

> So far all responses have appeared to assume that the data represent
> left and right ovaries on the SAME women.  But this cannot be the case,
> because the total number of left ovaries in the data is 132, and of
> right ovaries 103.  So:  before we can offer useful advice, we need to
> know whether the pathology being documented occurs, when it occurs, only
> in one of a woman's ovaries (for these data, anyway), or whether some of
> the 235 instances of pathology represent both ovaries for some of the
> women.  If there are any of these last, those are the only cases for
> which one has paired data.
 [ snip, rest]

It took me a few minutes to figure out the complications 
of these data, when there is or is-not  much pairing.
I was ignoring it, yes, because I was assuming (as DFB says)
that there was a lot of pairing, and a lot of cases with zero
pathology.  Those things don't have to be true.

If the L and R  instances are disjunct, then the paired t-test
would take place with a negative correlation, and the 
absolute correlation would be *larger*  for a smaller total  N.
I am not sure how much that affects the resulting t-test,
carried out as a paired t.  (Is this only a minor, theoretical 
concern?  How weird do the extremes have to be? - I don't 
have the time or interest  to check this right now.)

However, the Fisher's test, using binomial proportions,
still  works.  You note which is *worse*, L or R,  and 
you can count that, whether or not bad  ovaries are on 
the same woman.  You throw away more information about
severity, if there is not a lot of actual disease-pairing,
and a high correlation, L with R, but the test is still good.

-- 
Rich Ulrich, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pitt.edu/~wpilib/index.html
"Taxes are the price we pay for civilization." 
.
.
=================================================================
Instructions for joining and leaving this list, remarks about the
problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES, and archives are available at:
.                  http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/                    .
=================================================================

Reply via email to