Hi

On 27 Feb 2004, John Smith wrote:

> The ELO system does indeed give reasonably accurate estimates of the
> probability of winning. A simple logit model based on the difference
> in ELO rating will give a reasonable estimate of the probabilities of
> players winning.
> 
> I suppose what I am asking, in a sense, is could this prediction be
> improved by somehow accounting for the head-to-head record of the two
> participants in addition to the ELO rating difference.

One challenge is separating your criterion variable from your
predictor.  In the above logit model, for example, would not the
probability of players winning in a given pair be equivalent to
the head-to-head record?  One approach might be to separate your
database into predictor and criterion sets, with the predictors
being generated from certain "trials" and the criterion from the
other set of "trials.

In doing the separation, you would need to ask whether you are
interested solely in temporal prediction from past to
present/future, or simply in whether given the universe of
pairings across time you want to know whether head-to-head adds
to elo ranking.  If not temporal, then you could randomly divide
your observations into the two sets, calculate elo and
head-to-head within each of the sets, and then regress (using
multiple regression) probability of winning in set A (i.e.,
head-to-head?) on the elo and head-to-head scores from set B, and
vice versa.  If you are interested in temporal prediction you
would want to divide the observations into historical and
"current" sets and do the same calculation.

In either of these approaches (and presumably for your logit
model), you need somehow to create pairs of players who have met
enough times to provide meaningful data for both of your
predictors and the criterion.  Elo would be less of a problem
than head-to-head in that respect.  That is, presumably many of
the possible pairings of your 600 players ( 600!/(598!2!) = 300 x
598 = 179,400 possible pairs ) have never occurred or occur
infrequently enough that you would not have reliable
information.  And it would probably simplify the statistics to
have unique pairs, rather than individuals appearing in multiple
pairs.  Having 1-2, 1-10, 5-10, ... would seem to introduce some
complex dependencies among the observations.

So one way would be to see if you could generate a data set of
the following sort with sufficient numbers of observations to
allow the regressions described above (this assumes H2H is a
good proxy for your criterion of probability of winning).  ELO
here would be the difference in the two players ELO rankings
(1-2 or vice versa) and H2H would be the probability one
(arbitrarily specified?) player won (e.g., p first player won).

Pair    ELO-A   H2H-A   ELO-B   H2H-B
1-2
3-5
...

Certainly gets messy as you think about the details, so perhaps
there is a more elegant approach.  There was at least one link to
the mathematics of ELO rankings in google, but it appeared to be
unavailable.

Best wishes
Jim

============================================================================
James M. Clark                          (204) 786-9757
Department of Psychology                (204) 774-4134 Fax
University of Winnipeg                  4L05D
Winnipeg, Manitoba  R3B 2E9             [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CANADA                                  http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/~clark
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