I agree that the experimental design for this (hypothetical?) study has great difficulty.
Nonetheless: When I was a tender undergraduate I took a course in entomology (insects). For the final, I needed to know the 32 or so families of Insecta, a mostly straight memorization task, which is not easy for me. I worked hard to learn the list, put it aside just before entering the exam room, and then copied the list out on the back of the exam as soon as I received it. It worked! I had all the names, and I could then try to recall characteristics of each for the questions. At the end of the exam I tried to reproduce the list, just to see if I could. Nah, no way! Retention time of the whole list: about 15 minutes. Retention time for 3/4 of the list, about 1 hr. If you know about entomology, you know the correct terms for the two paragraphs above, and you can see that my retention time for the basic terms of zoological classification: less than 30 years. Since the anecdote that started this thread off seems to fit my personal experience so well, and yet has methodological holes suitable for driving trucks through, I suspect that the correct first reference will be found at the urban myths site. Something like www.snopes.com. Cheers, Jay > [Newsgroups trimmed by half, to get past Spam filters.] > > On 9 May 2004 16:01:42 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Herman > Rubin) wrote: > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Smyth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Hello all, > > >Is anyone able to help with the original reference for this study? > > > > >"In a classic study in a top university, summa cum laude graduates were > > >given their same final exams one month after graduation, and they all > > >failed. Researcher Leslie Hart summarised the results: "Final exams are > > >final indeed!" > > > > >Above information given (without any reference) on page 65 of Michael Gelb, > > >How to think like Leonardo Da Vinci (Thorsons 1998 London). > > > > >I skim read two books by Leslie Hart and found nothing about this study in > > >them. They were "Human Brain and Human Learning" (1983) and "The Classroom > > >Disaster" (1969). > > > > >Can anyone help with the original reference? > > > > I cannot help with the original reference, but as a faculty > > member, I can agree with the results. Memorizing lots of > > details is a losing proposition, and the concepts, which > > are not easily forgotten, are rarely taught. > > On contemplation, that seems like an awkward study. > How do you induce summa graduates to re-take their finals, > one month after graduation? How avid is their attention? > > In the quote I found on-line, it did not say "in a top university." > In my experience, the summa students were studying their > majors before college, and did not need to cram for finals in their > major fields. Nor would they forget the subject in 30 days. > > So that conclusion would be wrong or stupid, it seems now, > unless the tests were from Elective courses. (The U.S. system > requires and allows a variety of courses, outside the major field.) > > -- > Rich Ulrich, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pitt.edu/~wpilib/index.html > . > . > ================================================================= > Instructions for joining and leaving this list, remarks about the > problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES, and archives are available at: > . http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/ . > ================================================================= > -- Warner Consulting, Inc. 4444 N. Green Bay Road Racine, WI 53404-1216 Ph: (262) 634-9100 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home of the A2Q Method(tm) What do you want to improve, Today! via CoreComm Webmail. http://home.core.com . . ================================================================= Instructions for joining and leaving this list, remarks about the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES, and archives are available at: . http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/ . =================================================================
