Hi Andy, First of all, thank you for very thoughtful and detailed feedback!
I think a good place to start would be to enumerate the different use cases > that this solution could help with. Makes sense, I'll try to list them on the https://openedx.atlassian.net/ browse/TNL-2319 In general, having a custom tab that the author can add blocks to would be > very flexible, and much more powerful than the current static tab. In fact, > it might be better to replace the static tab with your new tab, because it > is straightforward for the author to add an HTML block to it, and then they > can easily extend it by adding videos or any other content they might have. > In some ways, it is as if they are adding a unit directly as a tab, rather > than within a section of the course. > Exactly! An important point to consider is that adding a discussion block to this > custom tab wouldn't work by default, as it would render an inline > discussion. The block would have to know that it was being rendered > 'outside the course', or it would need an advanced setting, or there would > need to be a different class of discussion block. The last two options seem > to me that they would be confusing for the author. This problem is caused by the fact inline discussion and course discussion have quite different UI, dictated by different use cases. Solutions use two different discussion XBlocks (codenames DiscussionXBlock and DiscussionCourseXBlock) for inline and course discussions, and so far it worked for them - we can follow that approach, if all else fails. However, it looks like introducing "course_tab_view" I mentioned earlier would be able to solve the problem. In two words: XBlockTab will ask XBlocks to render "course_tab_view", and by default that view will just fallback to "student_view"; XBlocks that need to look different in a tab will override it. IMO for a feature like discussions it would be ideal to register that it > wants to automatically add a tab, rather than requiring the course author > to explicitly add a new XBlock. I'm not sure I fully understand this idea, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Is this about automatically adding a XBlock discussion tab to a course if discussion XBlock is installed into platform? I can see four issues with this approach: 1. Implicit action - it might be confusing to course authors to see new tab appearing out of the thin air. Also, to avoid having two discussion tabs we'll have to hide one - probably old discussion tab; in this case it might be not obvious what happened. 2. If I do recall right, XBlock is not supposed to import anything from platform, and base class for course tabs (CourseTab) lives in edx-platform. 3. No obvious update plan for existing courses - I wouldn't in life figured out that refreshing tab list can be achieved by updating "Advanced Module List". And it looks like it is the only way to make Discussion XBlock tab to appear in existing courses in this scenario, unless we go into trouble of creating a migration script/management command. 4. (Very minor) If generic XBlockTab is implemented (the one that allows adding any XBlock/XModule to a tab), having dedicated tab for discussion XBlock would be confusing. Generic XBlockTab + DiscussionXBlock have drawbacks too: 1. Authors must manually add it to a course - might not be a drawback at all. It requires a bit more interaction than current version, but (arguably) we could mimic current behavior by always adding XBlockTab + discussion XBlock when course is created. 2. Upgrade for existing courses is slightly less trivial - there are two options: either allow authors to opt-in for new mechanism and let them manually migrate courses, or automatically migrate everything with management command (but this options have the drawback of being non-obvious to course authors) 3. DiscussionXBlock needs to be updated to know it is in the tab - this could be done using "course_tab_view" So, IMO, XBlockTab + DiscussionXBlock would be a more elegant solution; it might require a bit more work from course authors (unless we take care of them by autocreating tab+XBlock), but also will provide them some flexibility (i.e. slap an HTML block with instructions on top of course discussion). Again, this is all a very valuable ideas, thank you or sharing! Regards, Eugeny @Opencraft <http://opencraft.com> среда, 29 июня 2016 г., 0:14:36 UTC+3 пользователь Andy Armstrong написал: > > Hi Eugeny, > > This is a much requested feature, so thanks for sending out the proposal. > FYI, there's a pre-existing ticket that I created a while back in JIRA: > > https://openedx.atlassian.net/browse/TNL-2319 > > I think a good place to start would be to enumerate the different use > cases that this solution could help with. In general, having a custom tab > that the author can add blocks to would be very flexible, and much more > powerful than the current static tab. In fact, it might be better to > replace the static tab with your new tab, because it is straightforward for > the author to add an HTML block to it, and then they can easily extend it > by adding videos or any other content they might have. In some ways, it is > as if they are adding a unit directly as a tab, rather than within a > section of the course. > > An important point to consider is that adding a discussion block to this > custom tab wouldn't work by default, as it would render an inline > discussion. The block would have to know that it was being rendered > 'outside the course', or it would need an advanced setting, or there would > need to be a different class of discussion block. The last two options seem > to me that they would be confusing for the author. > > IMO for a feature like discussions it would be ideal to register that it > wants to automatically add a tab, rather than requiring the course author > to explicitly add a new XBlock. This is how the XModule works today using > the CourseTab extension point: > > https://openedx.atlassian.net/wiki/display/AC/Adding+a+new+course+tab > > As Cale mentioned, we've been thinking about allowing XBlocks to be able > to provide course views for themselves (both course-level student views, > and course-level instructor views). I've written more about this here: > > <http://goog_576435595> > > https://openedx.atlassian.net/wiki/display/AC/Feature+Plugins+for+edX+Platform > > I hope this is helpful. Let's keep the conversation going. > > - Andy > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 11:41 AM, <eug...@opencraft.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > >> Ok, concern noted, I'll keep it in mind. Also, if there are any written >> outcomes of "caused us more pain than they've been worth" it would be great >> if you could share them somehow. >> >> Actually, we might want to follow the approach StaticTab uses - it stores >> url_slug in policies.json and actual content in tabs/${url_slug}.xml - is >> that something similar to what you have in mind? >> >> Regards, >> Eugeny >> @Opencraft <http://opencraft.com> >> >> On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 6:15:51 PM UTC+3, Calen Pennington wrote: >>> >>> For OLX, I can see the content being exported to the `tabs` directory, >>> but I'm a bit concerned about where the links to those tabs will live. In >>> general, having XBlocks that are detached from the course tree has caused >>> us more pain than they've been worth, in the past, so I'd love to see an >>> explicit reference to the tab usage key somewhere (maybe from the Course >>> block?) >>> >>> -Cale >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 11:11 AM, <eug...@opencraft.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Cale, >>>> >>>> >>>> - Usage_key - the same as normal blocks have. I don't think >>>> usage_key includes block's parent, so it won't be affected by adding it >>>> to >>>> a tab vs vertical. Is there any caveat I'm missing? >>>> - OLX - if I do recall right XBlocks in Units are stored in >>>> "vertical", one unit per file. For a tab it makes sense to reuse the >>>> same >>>> approach; the only question is where to put that tab XML file. At a >>>> glance >>>> it should be located in "tabs", as StaticTab stores it's contents >>>> there. >>>> But it is derived from how HTML module works, so we don't have to >>>> replicate >>>> it. I don't have final answer on this, but "tabs" folder seems like a >>>> correct place. >>>> - There might be three approaches: >>>> - It doesn't - "student_view" is always rendered - this is >>>> slightly simpler to implement and has more flexibility, but might be >>>> limited. >>>> - Convention-based - we define a new "predefined" view (i.e. >>>> "course_tab_view") to be used for course tab. This view might be >>>> "abstract", or can just default to "student_view". >>>> - Configuration based - export some decorator for XBlock to mark >>>> "course_tab_view" explicitly. >>>> >>>> To me, it looks like convention-based approach with "student_view" >>>> fallback is the most efficient one, so if there are no other >>>> considerations >>>> I would try implementing it first (and structuring the rest of >>>> conversation >>>> with that assumption in mind). >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Eugeny >>>> @Opencraft <http://opencraft.com> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 5:10:45 PM UTC+3, Calen Pennington wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Eugeny, >>>>> >>>>> Another approach that we've talked about in the past around this same >>>>> problem is that rather than having a specific tab type for housing an >>>>> XBlock, we'd allow XBlocks to expose a course_view, which the XBlock >>>>> could >>>>> use to render any course-level content (perhaps configuration details, >>>>> perhaps something like the Discussions tab, perhaps other uses). Those >>>>> tabs >>>>> could be rendered for any XBlock type that appeared in the course. >>>>> >>>>> Questions I have about your proposed implementation: >>>>> >>>>> - what will the XBlock usage_key would be? >>>>> - where will the XBlock content (scope.content) would be stored in >>>>> OLX? >>>>> - How does an XBlock define a view that's specific to the tab? >>>>> - For instance, I assume that the Discussion block would have a >>>>> different display in the tab than it would inline. >>>>> >>>>> -Cale >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 9:41 AM, <eug...@opencraft.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> My current understanding is that XBlockTab will just provide a >>>>>> "place" where you can put any XBlock or component, so that it would be >>>>>> displayed in tab. >>>>>> >>>>>> Theoretically it would mean that any XBlock could be added there, and >>>>>> that XBlock would work exactly the same in tab or in unit. Practically - >>>>>> I >>>>>> don't know yet - there might be a need for an XBlock to implement some >>>>>> interface to be able to work in tab, and in that case only certain >>>>>> XBlocks >>>>>> will be available for tabs. But I would like to avoid that and have a >>>>>> truly >>>>>> generic solution. >>>>>> >>>>>> In two words: the suggested XBlockTab lives in edx-platform and only >>>>>> "hosts" XBlocks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Eugeny >>>>>> @Opencraft <http://opencraft.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:30:00 PM UTC+3, Cristian Salamea wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Peter Pinch <pdp...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How would this affect course import and export? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I believe unrecognized blocks are ignored on import, but that may >>>>>>>> be harder to do with tabs, since they are specified in policy.json. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In fact question could be extended to: in future any xblock can add >>>>>>> a tab ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd also want to make sure that there is some meaningful logging >>>>>>>> and error messaging to the user when a course is imported and the >>>>>>>> proper >>>>>>>> XBlockTab hasn't been installed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, eug...@opencraft.com wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello world! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Background*: OEP is a new (suggested) format for proposing >>>>>>>> changes to Open edX platform. More details: >>>>>>>> https://github.com/edx/open-edx-proposals/blob/master/oeps/oep-0001.rst >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Idea: *Allow XBlocks to be displayed in a course tab (like >>>>>>>> Progress, Discussion, etc.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Motivation: * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - In order to completely pull out discussions from >>>>>>>> edx-platform. discussion XModule is (almost) converted to an >>>>>>>> XBlock <https://github.com/edx/edx-platform/pull/12582>. The >>>>>>>> next step would be to replace course discussion tab with discussion >>>>>>>> XBlock-based solution. >>>>>>>> - This might be useful for building instructor tools (example of >>>>>>>> a tool that could benefit from this >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://github.com/open-craft/problem-builder/blob/master/problem_builder/instructor_tool.py>). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is related to other thread on mailing list >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/edx-code/Zd2sKQaMhHI> - >>>>>>>> kind of alternative implementation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Tentative implementation details: * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *tl;dr*: XBlockTab (working name) will be similar to existing >>>>>>>> StaticTab (powers "Custom Page" feature) and use nested XBlocks >>>>>>>> concept to >>>>>>>> allow using any XBlock (component?) in a Tab. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Overall, it would work like that: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - "Pages" page in Studio will have "Add XBlock Page" button >>>>>>>> added; this button will cause XBlockTab to be added to a course >>>>>>>> - In studio XBlockTab will expose UI for adding XBlocks and >>>>>>>> (most likely) other components (problems, video, etc.), similar to >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> found in course Outline editor (Unit page). At a glance it looks >>>>>>>> like it >>>>>>>> could be exact same UI, but it is not 100% clear yet. >>>>>>>> - Components added to an XBlockTab will be persisted to the >>>>>>>> modulestore using the same mechanism to allow nested XBlocks. >>>>>>>> - In LMS, XBlockTab will render its children (nested) >>>>>>>> components sequentially - much like "Unit" (aka vertical module). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm about writing an OEP this week, so feedback and ideas are very >>>>>>>> welcome. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Eugeny >>>>>>>> @Opencraft <http://opencraft.com/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "General Open edX discussion" group. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/edx-code/ad852782-b1e2-46ba-85bc-8d93db72048a%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/edx-code/ad852782-b1e2-46ba-85bc-8d93db72048a%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "General Open edX discussion" group. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/edx-code/CFAAC85C-CE8E-4A56-819C-F1610A0C730A%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/edx-code/CFAAC85C-CE8E-4A56-819C-F1610A0C730A%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [image: Cristian Salamea on about.me] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cristian Salamea >>>>>>> about.me/ovnicraft >>>>>>> <http://about.me/ovnicraft> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "General Open edX discussion" group. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/edx-code/70e847c6-b42e-470f-8ea2-9ffba6d81e2f%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/edx-code/70e847c6-b42e-470f-8ea2-9ffba6d81e2f%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "General Open edX discussion" group. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/edx-code/4dd69f54-5ead-45ea-bf29-3b7ffce6be64%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/edx-code/4dd69f54-5ead-45ea-bf29-3b7ffce6be64%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "General Open edX discussion" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/edx-code/e68f5731-3dfd-43c6-a15f-a08babc0d51f%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/edx-code/e68f5731-3dfd-43c6-a15f-a08babc0d51f%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > > -- > > *Andy Armstrong* > > edX | UI Architect | an...@edx.org <javascript:> > > 141 Portland Street, 9th floor > > Cambridge, MA 02139 > http://www.edx.org <http://www.edxonline.org/> > > [image: > http://www.e-learn.nl/media/blogs/e-learn/edX_Logo_Col_RGB_FINAL.jpg?mtime=1336074566] > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "General Open edX discussion" group. 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