Hi,
Maybe I am totally off the mark but is Jonathan just demonstrating the fact
the vendors still are not producing reliable and correct software no matter
what design or protocol we use. Specifications have to be tightened up and
tests need to be performed to show correct compliance. This is similar to
the current thread relating to Web Logic and the ejbStore method. I do not
think Jonathan was attacking the new proposal coming from the Jini work.
What he showed was that even in this new, immature or unproven world
(EJB/RMI, JRMP,T3.....) that we still have the same problems that exist in
the current relatively proven world (CORBA, IIOP) - not all vendors have
compliant and quality implementations.
I believe that the ejb team need to consider now what the best way forward
is. Continue their existing work and finish it or introduce the new proposal
to help smaller vendors enter the market and possibly innovate or introduce
more trouble and incompatibilities. They have to weigh this up in light of
the current direction taken in all the J2EE packages and the current
business trends. They must all consider how the implementation can roll out
with the least inconveince (deployment, security....). I do not have the
time and knowledge to even attempt to understand all the factors that must
be taken into account in this decision but one thing is sure, we need a
definitive specification that is detailed and enforced.
How does the fact that most of the people on this newsgroup speak their own
native tongues along with English relate to the effectiveness and efficiency
of the embassy concept.
William
PS: Anyone for a nice cup of coffee.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rickard �berg [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 8:09 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Why embassies matter, was Why smoke signals matter
>
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:39:00 -0700, Jonathan K. Weedon
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Why application server interoperability
> > should be based on smoke signals
> >
> ><vendor>
> <snip>
>
> Either I am really bad at explaining things, or you really haven't
> listened at all. You took one of the minor points of the anti-protocol
> side, enlarged it as much as possible, and almost provided an argument
> for your point of view. I'm not very convinced just yet, sorry. And if
> this was the best argument you could come up with, I don't quite see why
> we're still discussing this.
>
> Anyway, I'll try to play your game and use metaphors. Maybe that will be
> easier to understand.
>
> Once upon a time there was an indian tribe called the Hopis. They lived
> in groups that were far apart on the great plains of America. To
> communicate they found that the most effective method was to use smoke
> signals. This worked very well since the land was dry and fires were
> easy to set up, and the absense of high mountain ranges and clear skies
> made it even more effective. All is well.
>
> In another country, far away, there are Tibetan monks who live in the
> rocky neighbourhood of the Himalayas. They too needed a way to
> communicate between the monasteries. However, unlike the Hopis they
> found that smoke signals didn't quite work. The high mountains and
> strong winds made the smoke dissipate too much to make it work well.
> Making a fire was also tough since the landscape was covered with snow,
> and burnable material scarce. Hence, they used fast runners to send
> messages. Comparatively slow, but reliable.
>
> In yet another country, living in the vast Amazon rain forests of South
> America, there was a tribe who don't really have a name (AFAIK it's not
> pronouncable using western syllables). Nevertheless, they too needed to
> communicate over distances somehow. But smoke signals wasn't reliable
> (have you ever tried to light a fire in a rain forest? "Difficult" is an
> understatement), so they mimicked the animals and used sounds. Sounds on
> particular frequencies and created using fairly large instruments can
> travel far in a forest, and since it was hard for an untrained ear to
> distinguish it from animal sounds they were easy to conceal from
> unwanted listeners.
>
> All three tribes communicated like crazy within their respective groups,
> until one day they each learned of each others existence. "Hey, cool,
> more dudes to chat with!" they thought. So, the Hopis started signaling
> using smoke, thinking that "hey, anyone can do smoke signals, right?".
> Unfortunately, neither the monks nor the Amazon fellows ever got the
> message, and if they did they wouldn't have been able to decipher the
> signals. Tragedy. So many new friends, and no way to talk.
>
> And so it was for a long time, until one day one of the Tibetan monks,
> after a particularly inspiring meditation session, had a vision:
> "I know, let's send one of our guys to the Hopis. We can use sign
> language, or he can learn the Hopi language, and if they have something
> interesting to say he can come back and tell us!". And thus the concept
> of an "embassy" was born.
>
> The Amazon dudes learned of this trick and also sent an ambassador of
> their tribe to the Hopis. After some tweaking the monk, Hopis, and
> amazon dude managed to understand each other, and the monk could run
> back with some important information, whereas the Amazon used his horn
> to tell his friends (and considering the distance he had to blow REALLY
> hard! But it worked).
>
> And from that day they communicated without a glitch. Happy happy.
>
> And noone ever considered using smoke signals only. Because history had
> shown them that this didn't work too well all over the world.
>
> The End
>
> /Rickard
>
> Metaphor reference:
> "tribe"="vendor"
> "Himalaya"="firewall"
> "horn"="cell phone"
> "embassy"="API-based proxy"
> "smoke signal"="IIOP"
> "running monk"="RMI/SOAP"
> "conceal from unwanted listeners"="super-mega-encryption++"
>
> --
> Rickard �berg
>
> @home: +46 13 177937
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.telkel.com
> http://www.ejboss.org
> http://www.dreambean.com
>
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