Dion, you wrote:
> Wow. You don't wear your vendor on your sleeve do you?
I have a Sun Java badge on my sleeve, actually :-)
> Are you just upset that Sybase has no market share in either
> app server or database?
If this were true, I might be upset. In our target markets,
we have excellent market share. In the mobile database market
alone, something like 68%.
As far as app. server market share is concerned, vendors of some
J2EE app. servers like to measure the J2EE part of the market ignoring
the fact that some folks use app. servers for C++, COM, PB etc.
Anyway I digress.
I am trying to make the point that in a distributed system, it is
somewhere between 'useful' and 'very important' to not have client
and server versions so tightly coupled that you have to upgrade
everything all at once. You cannot deny that this is the case. I
talk to people in the industry who grapple daily with such issues.
> There are lots of good app servers out there... and
> I don't even think that WebLogic is "the best",
> but I don't see many ppl using Sybase either ;)
Which is beside the point. Even if we had a puny 1% marketshare
or less, I think I made a reasonable point. What was so wrong
with my browser / web server analogy?
> Anyway ... back to normal EJB-INTEREST service?
>
> Dion
>
> ps. I love how you get 10 "Out of office", and "address not found" replies
> when you talk to this list ;)
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: A mailing list for Enterprise JavaBeans development
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Evan Ireland
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 6:36 PM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Re: differrence in weblogic 5.1 and weblogic 6.0
>>
>>
>>Dion Almaer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That wouldn't be good... but you would make it all part of the
>>>build/deployment process.
>>>If you had a system with 20,000 client machines, you wouldn't
>>>
>>suddenly jump
>>
>>>from version A to version B.
>>>
>>
>>Well clearly I wouldn't if I was a WebLogic customer :-)
>>
>>But if I was a Sybase customer, I might well do this if I
>>want to take advantage of scalability features (such as
>>eneity bean object caching) in a new server version without
>>spending tnes of thousands of dollars having client installations
>>upgraded. Bear in mind these client installations might be outside
>>my own company and may be very expensive to upgrade. Java applets
>>might help but what if the clients aren't written in Java? What
>>if they are written in VB?
>>
>>Should I have to upgrade my browser just because Amazon puts
>>in a new web server version? I think not. You may think EJB is
>>fundamentally different. I would disagree.
>>
>>Also, have you considered that some of your clients may be
>>themselves servers? In a large enterprise, who wants to have
>>to upgrade versions for all of their connected servers just
>>because one of them is to be upgraded.
>>
>>We have even had requests from customers wanting app-server
>>clusters with mixed versions. Do I want to simultaneously
>>have to upgrade all nodes in my 20-node cluster (taking my
>>site down for several days) when I can do it piece-meal and
>>keeping my site up. (Note: Sybase EAServer does not support this
>>at present, but at least we understand the value of doing so).
>>
>>True enterprise software vendors understand the importance of
>>backwards compatibility. Why throw out the 'old' if it can
>>happily 'co-exist' with the new?
>>
>>Anyway, I think I've had my say and I'll stop my BEA bashing for
>>a few weeks :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>>D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: A mailing list for Enterprise JavaBeans development
>>>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Evan Ireland
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 6:10 PM
>>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>Subject: Re: differrence in weblogic 5.1 and weblogic 6.0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dion Almaer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I understand the need for backwards compatibility. However you have to
>>>>>weigh up having your server be backwards compatible,
>>>>>to getting rid of that bloat. Depending on what has been
>>>>>
>>changed in the
>>
>>>>>server side maybe you really can't be backwards compatible.
>>>>>
>>It may be a
>>
>>>>>pain to run your client using the new weblogic.jar etc... but
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>is it *that*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>much of a pain?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>It could be, if you have to install weblogic.jar on 20,000 client
>>>>machines.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>D
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: A mailing list for Enterprise JavaBeans development
>>>>>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Evan Ireland
>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 4:52 PM
>>>>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>Subject: Re: differrence in weblogic 5.1 and weblogic 6.0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cedric,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Whatever happened to backwards compatibility?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why shouldn't older clients be able to talk to newer servers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>><vendor>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Still, perhaps it's better if you leave it thay way. If you
>>>>>>
>>annoy enough
>>
>>>>>>of your customers, we might win some more business for Sybase
>>>>>>
>>EAServer.
>>
>>>>>></vendor>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cedric Beust wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>From: A mailing list for Enterprise JavaBeans development
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>this client code works fine with weblogic 5.1 but it gives following
>>>>>>>>error in weblogic 6.0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Exception in main() :javax.naming.CommunicationException
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>[Root exception
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>is weblogic.socket.UnrecoverableConnectException: [Login failed:
>>>>>>>>'Incompatible version:Incompatible versions - this server:6.0.0b2
>>>>>>>>client:5.1.0]]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>can any one please help me and let me know what should I do
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You cannot communicate between client and servers with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>different versions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Make sure you compile and run your client with Weblogic 6.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>Cedric
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>send email to
>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>==================================================================
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
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