Hi Tinuo,

I agree with you 100%, but do not understand what do you mean by:

>>>And depending on how you design your application you often time >>>don't
>>>have to redeploy your beans at all.

Would you care to elaborate? Thanks

Anatole

>From: Tinou Bao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Tinou Bao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: EJB Development Cycle
>Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:44:54 -0500
>
>I don't think you can simply blame EJBs for your development aches. EJBs
>provide you with several features, such as security, transaction,
>persistence, distributed. Naturally the container needs to generate classes
>to do this work for you. Otherwise you'll endup writing this code for
>yourself. So, do you want to have a lot of classes generated by the
>container or a lot of classes your developers code? If you don't need these
>features then don't use EJBs. Regarding deployment time. Yes, EJBs require
>an extra step but this should in general not cause you all the pains you
>speak of. You can write scripts that pretty much does all the
>compiling/deployment for you. And depending on how you design your
>application you often time don't have to redeploy your beans at all unless
>some major interface changes. It could also be that you are not unit
>testing
>your code enough. If you are waiting to discover bugs only when you deploy
>your stuff I think it's a little too late to complain.
>
>_________________________________________
>
>Tinou Bao
>BAO Systems
>Chairman of the Board and Chief Software Architect
>www.baosys.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Hu Shih" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:08 AM
>Subject: [EJB-INT] EJB Development Cycle
>
>
> > Please forgive my frustrated tone, but
> >
> > I've been working with EJB (CMP beans with session facades) using Sun's
> > J2SDKEE.  I find the development cycle extremely tiring and slow.  I
>write
> > bean code.  I go to their deploytool to deploy it.  I run the thing.
>Find
> > problems and come back to my development environment.
> >
> > I understand some IDEs will make this cycle easier.  Still, I've been
>used
> > to developing and testing code quickly in an iterative cycle.  After
>many
>of
> > these iterations, I deploy to user environment--many
>code/compile/test-runs,
> > very few deployments.
> >
> > One of the big advantages of a quasi-intrepretive language like Java is
> > precisely that the repetitive code/compile/test-run cycle is quick.
> >
> > EJB changed all this.  They stuck a rather long, tedious, and often
>painful
> > deployment phase right between compile and test-run, often breaking the
> > development cycle with 10 to 20 minute breaks.
> >
> > Debugging such a deployed app is a nightmare.  Because EJB (especially
>CMP)
> > generate so many classes and because so many of these are system
>generated
> > stuff, I have very little idea what's going on or what I have done
>wrong.
> >
> > Also, so much information that are important to developers are hidden
>away
> > from them in multi-level jars/ears/wars, etc. (and these things are
> > humongous).  And, why so many classes?  When running, I see over 4
>classes
> > generated for each EJB bean.  This is excess and debugging nightmare!
> >
> > With Java, the trickiest configuration parameter was CLASSPATH.  With
>EJB,
>I
> > have to know and worry about so many of these configurations, I feel
>like
>I
> > need a dictionary of them.
> >
> > What's going on?  It's almost as though EJB put Java back to the level
>of
> > C++ and C++ templates.  I don't know about others, but I generalize
>dislike
> > and dispise the condescending attitude of any system that tells
>developers:
> > "Don't worry.  We'll take care of you by generating lots of stuff under
>the
> > covers.  Why would you care about long breaks in the development cycle?
>Go
> > take a coffee break."
> >
> > Developers are an impatient and controlling bunch.  Java has been good
> > because it gives speed of development and gives enough control for
> > developers.  In my opinion, EJB is going backwards (the wrong
>direction).
> > Is there an effort to address these?  Or, is it that to be an EJB
>developer,
> > you have to take all this willingly and gladly?
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >
>===========================================================================
> > To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the
>body
> > of the message "signoff EJB-INTEREST".  For general help, send email to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "help".
> >
> >
>
>===========================================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body
>of the message "signoff EJB-INTEREST".  For general help, send email to
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "help".
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

===========================================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body
of the message "signoff EJB-INTEREST".  For general help, send email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "help".

Reply via email to