E Johnson wrote: > This endless "privacy policy" discussion is worse than tedious. It > sidetracks the developers, whose time is better spent in making Ekiga > better for us all. > > In his initial post, Dirk wrote "I'm a skype user, but I'm thinking > about to try Ekiga." I fail to understand how a Skype user should > worry about this system, which is infinitely more secure. > > And I am frankly surprised at how much time has been wasted here to > accommodate this discussion. > > The privacy policy of Ekiga was stated several days ago by Damien: > > "Only email addresses and first name / last name informations are > stored in a database. This information will not be made public or > given to third-parties." > > It's very clear: they don't share your info. They only keep the > minimum of info necessary to make the system work for you. > > Bottom line. Punt. Finito. End of story. > > Let it go, people... if someone is so insecure, let him find a cave to > hide in alone. Let's stop wasting everyone's time, and let the > developers go back to doing their job. > > Thanks very much, > Liz J > You seams to have a very narrow view of making a service like Ekiga is. It's more than just software (which is of course very important), it's also about making a good service, e.g. good program, good documentation, good support, a good website, good registration, good advertisement and in my opinion a good privacy policy.
Disappointing that you do not understand, even after a (using your words) endless discussion, the point yet. But I want to try to make it clear once more... Fine, that the policy seems to be clear for you, me and maybe for more people on this list. I think the same clearness is necessary for *all *the (potential) users of Ekiga. That's not a waste of time but necessarily for a service like Ekiga and which will make Ekiga as a service even better and I suppose that's what also the developers want! Also it will give you a stronger position when potential users or reviewers compare Ekiga with for example Skype. Dirk > > > > > > > On 3/20/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Send ekiga-list mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of ekiga-list digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Privacy policy of Ekiga (schoappied) >> 2. Re: Privacy policy of Ekiga (D Webb) >> 3. Re: Privacy policy of Ekiga (schoappied) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:39:30 +0100 >> From: schoappied <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga >> To: Ekiga mailing list <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Stefan Monnier wrote: >> >>>>> I hope you will be able to point me to the privacy statements of >> >>>>> Ekiga or otherwise You will take this subject very seriously. >> >>>>> >> >>>> Are you talking about ekiga or ekiga.net? >> >>>> >> >>> I think both are really important, is it not? >> >>> >> > >> > Not really: the Ekiga application is just that: an application. >> > It happens to use the network, just like Firefox, but it doesn't >> > (modulo bugs or nasty people adding backdoors) connect to any machine >> > to which you haven't explicitly asked it to connect. >> > >> > I don't think a privacy statement is important here. >> > >> > >> >> You seem to assume that Ekiga is an organization, in the way that Skype >> >> is an organization. It is not at all the same thing: Skype is a >> >> commercial organization with a proprietary product and service; Ekiga >> >> is an open source application, and there is a community that supports >> >> and uses it. To use myself as an example, the only information that >> >> ekiga.net has access to are my name and email address. There need be >> >> no privacy statement, since there is no collection of personal data, >> >> such as Skype might require and use. >> >> >> > >> > The fact that Ekiga.net is not commercial doesn't make much difference: >> > it does keep a database of users with their email address and names, and >> > (more importantly) it does keep track of which ones are connected and >> > from where, so it know about IP addresses and may potentially keep a log >> > of "when which user connected with which IP". >> > >> > And the police may order Damien to give out some of that info, or some >> > dire financial need (or juicy offer) may push Damien to sell that info. >> > >> > So a privacy statement explaining what info is kept (e.g. is a log of IP >> > addresses kept?), that to which it is intended (e.g. it's not intended >> > to be distributed to any third party, except the name database which is >> > freely searchable, IIUC), and the worst case guarantee (all the data may >> > be stolen, subpoena'd, sold, ...). >> > >> > >> > Stefan >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ekiga-list mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list >> > >> > >> D Webb wrote: >> > I assume that everything I read, write, upload or download on the >> > Internet >> > and dates, times and IP addresses are being recorded by several >> > governmental agencies at any given moment. Thus far, I have rarely been >> > proven wrong. I assume everything I do on the Internet could just as well >> > have been shouted at the top of my lungs in a football stadium. >> > >> > It is in this sense that I think privacy statements, while being a >> > profitable >> > marketing gesture for a business, offers no more privacy than no >> > statement >> > at all. Let us say you are going to tell someone over Ekiga about some >> > terrible >> > crime you will commit. Do you really think you will escape police >> > intervention >> > or a prison sentence because of a privacy statement? I guess you could >> > try and file a lawsuit from a prison cell, but would it not be easier >> > to accept >> > my interpretation of VoIP as shouting in a football stadium? >> > >> > Finally, a lawyer could butt in and tell us all these complicated >> > issues and >> > scenarios and pitfalls, and the infinite variances in different >> > countries. Again, >> > would it not be easier to just assume you are shouting in a football >> > stadium >> > and just accept the Internet does not have much mercy for privacy? >> > >> > Dominic >> >> Of course the governments and police can get at a given time (as >> exception) access to data stored on the internet. But, at least in the >> Netherlands, also the government and the police have to respect laws and >> rules. So the comparison with information that is shouted in a stadium >> is not right here. It's also not a good attitude of the citizens of a >> country to just accept that everyone can violate your privacy. Citizens >> should put effort in making good rules for privacy or to protect it. >> Privacy is a human right of a democracy. >> >> And there is more then police and government. The police and government >> are not the first and also not the second reason to have a privacy >> policy. The first reason is that you as a user, have the right to know >> what is happening with your given or received data. On the basis of the >> policy you can decide whether or not you are going to use that service. >> So Ekiga as a service can at least give information how they handle the >> information with or without given guarantees. Second it is also good to >> know if a service will doing at least there best to take care about privacy. >> >> The fact that other service store information for a long time, set >> cookies, or even give or sell information to third parties >> (advertisement companies for example) makes a privacy policy useful or >> necessary for a service as Ekiga. I don't want a service that is >> gathering information and give it to third parties and so I like to know >> of Ekiga what there policy is in this case. And I think it is something >> that a service like Ekiga should have, because it is important how a >> service is dealing with your (private) information (I don't like to find >> my chatsession with my girlfriend to find on Google or that others can >> know who I'm calling at which times). >> >> The argument that privacy statements or policies is only profitable >> marketing is something which is not true. I can't see why it should >> Ekiga costs money to have just written down there privacy policy. I >> think too that a privacy policy is not the same as a guarantee, it would >> be nice if it was, but inform your users about the privacy policy of the >> service and doing the best to protect the privacy of the 'users' is in >> itself a good thing. >> >> >> Dirk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:07:00 +0000 >> From: D Webb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga >> To: Ekiga mailing list <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> > rules. So the comparison with information that is shouted in a stadium >> > is not right here. It's also not a good attitude of the citizens of a >> > country to just accept that everyone can violate your privacy. Citizens >> > should put effort in making good rules for privacy or to protect it. >> > Privacy is a human right of a democracy. >> >> Right, wrong, the law and self-preservation are 4 different things with >> infinite permutations of interpretation. Please consider thinking of your >> privacy much like your bicycle, you from the Netherlands. You will want >> laws to punish bicycle thieves AND a strong lock. The law exists because >> there are people who do not follow it. I expect privacy laws and the >> corresponding violators to co-exist. I do not see privacy statements >> helping much. >> >> Dee >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. >> >> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/ZuneADay/?locale=en-US&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Mobile_Zune_V3 >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: /archives/ekiga-list/attachments/20080320/273de28b/attachment.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:42:28 +0100 >> From: schoappied <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga >> To: Ekiga mailing list <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> D Webb wrote: >> > > rules. So the comparison with information that is shouted in a stadium >> > > is not right here. It's also not a good attitude of the citizens of a >> > > country to just accept that everyone can violate your privacy. Citizens >> > > should put effort in making good rules for privacy or to protect it. >> > > Privacy is a human right of a democracy. >> > >> > Right, wrong, the law and self-preservation are 4 different things with >> > infinite permutations of interpretation. Please consider thinking of your >> > privacy much like your bicycle, you from the Netherlands. You will want >> > laws to punish bicycle thieves AND a strong lock. The law exists because >> > there are people who do not follow it. I expect privacy laws and the >> > corresponding violators to co-exist. I do not see privacy statements >> > helping much. >> > >> > Dee >> > >> I think you're right on this point, although Ekiga should, in my >> opinion, do there best to protect my information against potential >> violators.... >> >> But it seems that you not really understand what I was trying to say. >> It's not only about protecting information against violators outside, >> but as a user I want to know the policy of* Ekiga itself.* What are they >> doing with my information. That's what I want to know before I will use >> a service like Ekiga. And I think they should put there policy, like >> many other comparable services, on there website. >> >> Privacy for a internet service like Ekiga is an important issue. That's >> why I was a little surprised by the reaction of developer Damien (with >> respect), who said that he finds writing a privacy policy boring or >> hasn't enough time for it. I think if you're offering a service like >> this and like to have a lot of users, the first thing you should do is >> doing your best to protect your users against violations of all kind and >> give them information about how you deal with the privacy of your users. >> That's at least the right your users have. >> >> I like to help spreading the word about Ekiga, but I'd like to do that >> with the knowledge that the service has a good and open privacy policy. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Dirk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ekiga-list mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list >> >> End of ekiga-list Digest, Vol 20, Issue 38 >> ****************************************** >> >> > _______________________________________________ > ekiga-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list > > _______________________________________________ ekiga-list mailing list [email protected] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
