Dear Antony, I'm very happy to know that you can use the Avro keyboard for scripts other than Bangla. But the problem is, it is a closed source software. As a result, you cannot port it to other platforms. In mac Apple provides strong API's for making input method softwares. But I don't know how tricky it will be to add a font which is placed other than the fonts folders of the system. Actually if you want to make a keyboard layout like avro you need to learn Objective-C and Cocoa framework. Specially, the Input Method Framework. But before that you need to be a real mac user. Running Windows on a beautify Mac machine will not do. To develop the software you need to learn Xcode. But I have one question, why its necessary to make a portable keyboard? I think its better to get a open source like Avro that can be ported to any platform you like. Its impossible to make a single program that will run on all platform. You can use Java but that will never give you the level of integration you want with the system in Windows. In Mac Java was one of the primary development language. But Apple stopped its development of Java as one of the primary development language. But Cocoa-Java Apps are still supported. But it will be a much tough to build a Cocoa-Java apps because most of the recent development by Apple in 10.4 and 10.5 are not available in Java. Above all it will be a slow program. You can use Cocoa-Python or Cocoa-Ruby as your primary development language. Apple started to support this languages from 10.5.
But Objective-C will be the best way to implement your program. You have a keyboard editor available for fee, the Ukelele. But you need to run a software that will add a keyboard layout and fonts with the systems input method system and font systems from a non standard position will not be that easy. Well you can copy your fonts to the users font folder and instantly that font will be available in all running and not running apps. This is a beauty of Mac. You don't need to restart even your application. Its just adds automatically to your font panel. But for keyboard layout needs a log off (not a restart). So adding a keyboard layout or input method will be tricky. You need to know the system from its depth. You may write a kernel extension but you need to install it deep into the system and you need Administrative access. As a result your program will not get the level of portability you are thinking in this way. Yes, you can add kernel extension without a restart or logoff. But it is not likely that any one will give you his admin pass just to use his Mac temporarily. Mac is well aware of the security and ask for admin name and pass when you want to add something to the system even if you are logged in as an admin user. So, you need the pass. After all it is a UNIX. So, you have to discovar some other method to add your program. It will be great challenge. If you accept logoff than it can be an easy task. Because Apple provides option to add user level keyboard layout and fonts. Run a software that will copy the fonts in the fonts folder of the user (you don't need any pass for it) and copy your keyboard layout into the keyboradlayout folder and logoff and relogin. Go to system preference and enable to keyboard layout and you are ready to use the keyboard layout. When you are done, run another program that will remove your fonts and keyboard layout from the system and logoff. done. Raiyan On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Ananga ---- Antony Brand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Thanks for the info > > I've CC'd this to Omi Azad, I hope that this is okay. > > Judging by what you said, the features that would bring Ekushey for the mac > up to the same level as usefulness as Avro and would make my next choice of > laptop a mac would be: > > 1. a portable edition that runs from a USB stick > 2. a virtual font facility that allows you to use your own fonts on > someone elses mac without installing them > 3. the ability to load xml keyboard map files from a USB stick > > In fact, assuming that Avro works okay on a mac running XP or Vista I think > I must get a mac anyway and the above will just be the icing on the cake. I > was toying with getting a vye mini laptop > http://www.vyepc.com/?sec=1&prd=8 . > > As a matter of interest, What languages do you program in? What > technologies did you have to become familiar with in order to complete this > project? > > > all the best > > Antony Brand > > Glastonbury, Somerset, UK > > p.s. > I wrote the following a bit earlier. I think I've summarised the most > important points above so only read it if you want to! > > > Please find 2 AAT Mac fonts in http://www.ekushey.org/?page/mac_downloadboth > of them are working fine. >>> >> > Do these AAT fonts also work on Windows machines? If not, could they be > extended to do so? > > As wrongly mentioned in the pages Mac OS X prefer AAT over OpenType. But in >>> one minor version of the OS OpenType was given more priority than AAT. Now, >>> in 10.5.x all prefer AAT. >>> >> > Forgive my ignorance but doesn't OpenType potentially mean the same font > can be used for mac and PC. Is this not the case with bangla at the moment? > Can't AAT information be included in OpenType fonts? Where does Uniscribe > fit in with all this? > > >> >>> Yes, Apple uses XML layouts and you have easy tools to edit the layouts: >>> >>> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=ukelele >>> >>> You can fine several layouts in >>> http://www.ekushey.org/?page/mac_download . >>> >>> In Mac OS X 10.5 Apple provided dedicated API for keyboard development. >>> Its possible for us to make an Avro for Mac but to do that I need to know >>> the algorithm of AVRO. How it works? >>> >> > I like to think of AVRO as a collection of different specific technologies > that work well to together. > > It comes in two different versions, one that is installed on the machineand > theportable editionthat lives on a USB stick or external hard drive > > The installed version is basically a bangla typing program with a number > of layouts, I assume pretty much the same as what Ekushey does. The > layouts are: > Avro Phonetic (English to Bangla), Avro Easy, Bornona, National (Jatiya) > and UniBijoy. I do not use any of these. > The installed version also includes a keyboard editor, presumably > something similar to your XML based keyboard layout editing tools. I have > also successfully used it to create a layout to type in Devanagari and > diacritics (accented latin characters). If I wanted to I could do the same > for european languages, mathematical symbols, greek letters etc in an > evening or so. Although the people behind Avro appear to want to restrict > themselves to just the Bangla language they seem to have unwittingly created > something that goes a long way to enabling something as just as > revolutionary for most of the languages of the world, perhaps excluding > Chinese/Japanese where where more sophisticated input mechanisms are > required. > > I don't know the algorithm used as far as the keyboard mapping goes, I just > know that it does enough for me to be able to do what I need to do, and the > keyboard layout is close enough to the scholarly sanskrit standard > (vaishnava) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard-Kyoto to be easy to learn > and remember. Of course if I had "carte blanche" (=absolute freedom) to > design my own software from scratch it would probably be somewhat different. > I don't have that luxury and I don't have enough time in the day to dream > about what my ideal keyboard layout would be! > > The portable edition doesn't have the keyboard editor however it can use > keyboard layouts that are created using the installed edition. > > its extremely valuable extra facilities are: > > 1. Type in Bangla (and loads of other languages) on other people's > computers without messing up their settings > 2. Use your own fonts on other peoples' XP or Vista computer. I'd be > interested to know how they implemented this, whether they developed this > themselves or it was somebody elses standard library > 3. Use your own keyboard layout on others' computers; a simple > consequence of creating a keyboard editor software > > >>> FYI, I'm the developer behind the ekushey's mac solution. I have done it >>> 2 years ago. Currently I'm working on AAT OpenType hybrid font. How to >>> generate such font with from an OpenType one. So that you can use OpenType >>> fonts string away on a Mac. I think I'll be able to come up with a program >>> that will do the job automatically. >>> >> > >> >>> I would like to learn about AVRO's algorithm. How its doing >>> the transliteration. I'm using SolimanLipi and Rupali in my mac for years. >>> >> > Thank you > >> >>> শুভেচ্ছা রইল। >>> >>> ইতি- >>> >>> রাইয়ান >>> Raiyan >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Ananga ---- Antony Brand < >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Raiyan >>>> >>>> Which aspect of Avro were you referring to? There are a number of >>>> aspects. Initially the most important one would be (1 below) the ability to >>>> create customised keyboard layouts (which would ideally work on both PC and >>>> Mac and and in the future Linux). I read at >>>> http://tanmoy.tripod.com/mac.html that OSX uses an XML file to store >>>> keyboard layouts. This would clearly be a step in the right direction >>>> towards the ultimate aim of having something work cross platform with a web >>>> interface. By the way the products at http://www.tavultesoft.com/ seem >>>> to be pretty much there but misses (2), (3) and (4) and is quite expensive. >>>> >>>> I'd be very interested in the steps you had to take and the problems >>>> you had to overcome to port Ekushey to the mac. >>>> >>>> all the best >>>> >>>> Antony >>>> Glastonbury, Somerset, UK >>>> >>>> p.s. I have invited you to chat on Google Talk oh and where do you live? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2008/9/8 Raiyan Kabir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> >>>> Dear Antony, >>>>> Do you have Avro like algorithm for Bangla? I'll be very happy to >>>>> implement that for Mac. If you have please let me have it. >>>>> >>>>> I'll implement that and try to put that in Mac OS as a built in option. >>>>> >>>>> Raiyan >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 3:32 AM, Ananga ---- Antony Brand < >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello >>>>>> >>>>>> I was just daydreaming about my ideal multilingual software and >>>>>> thought that it would: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. allow you to create your own keyboard layout (like Avro) >>>>>> 2. allow you to take your own fonts with you wherever you go (like >>>>>> Avro Portable) >>>>>> 3. allow you to type in bangla on someone else's computer (Avro >>>>>> Portable does that for XP and Vista) >>>>>> 4. be available on Windows, Linux and Mac (Ekushey has made buying >>>>>> a mac a possibility for me now. How long before Adobe software >>>>>> handles indic >>>>>> scripts properly) >>>>>> 5. work for other languages (I've used Avro to type in Devanagari >>>>>> and for accented Latin characters. Greek and Cyrillic would be easy to >>>>>> implement). >>>>>> >>>>>> I think that whoever can crack this one is sitting on a goldmine. Get >>>>>> the whole thing to run platform independently from a web based interface >>>>>> is >>>>>> on to a winner. >>>>>> >>>>>> Feedback, either on the list or by email welcome >>>>>> >>>>>> all the best >>>>>> >>>>>> Antony Brand >>>>>> Glastonbury, Somerset, Uk >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> এস, এম, রাইয়ান কবির >>>>> S. M. Raiyan Kabir >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ---------x--------- >>>> Antony Brand >>>> >>>> (Ananga Das Kirtaniya >>>> Sankirttan Ananda Das) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> এস, এম, রাইয়ান কবির >>> S. M. Raiyan Kabir >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> এস, এম, রাইয়ান কবির >> S. M. Raiyan Kabir >> > > > > -- > ---------x--------- > Antony Brand > > (Ananga Das Kirtaniya > Sankirttan Ananda Das) > -- এস, এম, রাইয়ান কবির S. M. Raiyan Kabir
