Guy, How about some more details on the counterpoise? I am using a 40' vertical top-loaded with two 44' wires (in other words, I'm feeding the feedline of my dipole as a vertical) on 160, my ground system is a bunch of elevated radials running around the eaves of my house and some in-ground wires, and I don't 'feel loud'. I would love to replace the mess with a better ground system.
On 12/21/2010 8:36 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: > We are developing a new class of non-radial 160m counterpoise > solutions. We had a few installed, and in use in the Stew Perry > Topband Distance Challenge last weekend. (We're actually TESTING them > before we go into blather mode, fancy that.) Look up W0UCE in the > 3830 TBDC score listing and compare his score to others in his area > (NC, VA, DC, PA). Nothing like contests to point out weaknesses, or > none. As of last count, he was in the top quarter of single op high > power scores, worldwide. > > W0UCE's transmit antenna had NO radials of any kind. He has a very > minimal up 47 feet out 85 foot end-fed wire for 160 (limits dictated > by available trees -- sound familiar?), working against a single wire > elevated folded counterpoise, no radials. He has no space on his > subdivision lot for beverages and used a pennant and K9AY loop for RX > antennas. The counterpoise, while giving up on field cancellation > loss below (the gift of DENSE radial fields) is designed to minimize > ground induction losses underneath while being an effective > counterpoise -- return energy for use in the RADIATING element. His > words were "I felt loud." > > There ARE significant differences between actual measurements and > model predictions (the expensive NEC4 pro EZNEC stuff) which we have > not explained (not for lack of trying), but if you really want to test > something, put it on line in a contest and go head to head with > everyone else. There's no BS in contest results, just stark reality. > You either beat or get beat (think NASCAR and tire and engine > testing). > > W0UCE's signal over the period of the contest is documented in the > Reverse Beacon Network, and we can compare it to anyone else's in the > USA over the contest period. Jack's category of station is "small lot > little guy, running an amp." > > Don, if you're interested, you're local, and we could put up one at > your place, including the cook's tour about how we think it works. > The 160m version of the counterpoise fits inside a a 45 degree right > triangle that has short sides of 60 feet and a hypotenuse of 86 feet, > to get the max out of small lots. It's specifically being designed > for the little guy. UCE lives in Youngsville and a tour is easily > arranged if you're interested. > > We won't be asking anyone to put up something we haven't already tried > and tested. > > 73, Guy. > > On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Steve Ellington<[email protected]> > wrote: >> Logically ..... >> >> You may as well have a big loss in the near-field and get it over with. >> >> That way you'll have less to loose in the far field! >> >> >> Steve >> N4LQ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Guy Olinger K2AV"<[email protected]> >> To: "Tony Estep"<[email protected]> >> Cc:<[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 10:28 AM >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Inverted-L (was OT: Vertical antenna) >> >> >>> The only thing I would point out about the article is that it >>> basically is a tabulation of model results, an extension of the model >>> presentation, what do you get if you run the model over and over kind >>> of thing. The modeling of dirt is in itself an attempt to extend a >>> limited paradigm of MF measurements (aka commercial broadcast band), >>> focused on measurements at the ground for very practical reasons >>> (Norton-Sommerfield) and has its own set of well-known issues. It is >>> quite common to model radial kinds of issues and then install a design >>> and find quite different results. Dirt, and all its variability, >>> remains notoriously resistant to being modeled. Modeling can, I say >>> "can", get one in the neighborhood and it's back to cut and measure, >>> and a degree of common sense. >>> >>> 73, Guy. >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Tony Estep<[email protected]> wrote: >>>> For those who wish to pursue the radials question further, here's one of >>>> the >>>> many publications on the subject. This one is replete with numerous >>>> tables >>>> and graphical representations of the incremental value of more and longer >>>> radials in various types of soil: >>>> >>>> http://www.ncjweb.com/k3lcmaxgainradials.pdf >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Tony KT0NY >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:[email protected] >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[email protected] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[email protected] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[email protected] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[email protected] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
