All this beacon talk has forced me to check out 14.1 and there is
nothing to be heard at my qth with several antennas.
So I am wondering what mode one needs to listen with. I was assuming CW
but I can not hear a signal on USB or LSB on that dial frequency. I
know the band is not so great today but I can get other digital modes
work and with no problem at all.
Don
~73
Don
KD8NNU
FH#4107
-.- -.. ---.. –. –. ..-
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
No argument Dave.
You wrote, "If you are competing against other hams, such as calling
CQ in a
contest or calling DX from within a pileup,.."
Of course that's a different situation from listening to a signal on a
clear
frequency.
That's why I don't join pileups calling DX and you'll find me on the
WARC
bands during contests.
And I know a lot of other Hams who operate just as I do, transmitting
only
on clear frequencies. Our sort of operation eliminates the need to
have a
big signal that can be copied through someone else's big signal.
The beacons demonstrate just how little power is necessary to work the
world
on a clear frequency.
73, Ron AC7AC
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will
Do
For Your Signal
I guess I wasn't particularly clear, or maybe I just didn't say it
often
enough. If you are competing against other hams, such as calling CQ
in a
contest or calling DX from within a pileup, EVERY db counts no matter
how
good the propagation is. An amplifier will often win the day for you
even
if you can hear the other guy while he's running QRP.
The same situation exists if it is noisy on the other end of the path,
where
as little as two db will make the difference between clear copy and no
copy.
Check the files on my website if you don't agree. The problem is ...
the
noise level on the other end may be significantly different than the
noise
level on your end. Just because you can hear him doesn't mean he can
hear
you.
More importantly, propagation doesn't open up to the same path loss
each day
... some days 5 watts gets the job done and some days even 1500 won't
cut
it. And just because you can hear F5XXX running 5 watts doesn't mean
that
you can hear PA3YYY unless he's running 1500 watts.
My point is that EVERYTHING is situational and generalizations don't
do
newcomers many favors.
Dave AB7E
On 3/22/2013 8:34 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
Yes. An amp that takes you up 10:1 in power, e.g. 20 watts to 200
watts or
100 watts to 1,000 watts, makes a 10 dB difference in signal -- just
a bit over one S-unit.
I pointed out the beacon resource as a good example of how often that
extra power is not needed on H.F., especially for narrow bandwidth
modes.
Otherwise we would not have QRP enthusiasts using simple verticals
with DXCC awards.
I liked the idea that new Hams can listen to the beacons themselves
and decide whether the power difference is all that important.
73, Ron AC7AC
-----Original Message-----
That's a good resource but it doesn't tell the whole story. An
amplifier will give you around 10 db improvement in signal on the
other end. That's more than the difference between a dipole and a
five element monobander. As little as 3 or 4 db will make a
significant difference when competing against others in a pileup, and
of course as little as 2 db can make the difference between no copy
and clear copy if your signal is right at the noise level.
http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html
Hams have turned their noses up at amplifiers for decades, but the
reality is that an amplifier and a decent vertical is often a more
cost effective way to put out a good signal than is low power to a
tower and big antenna ... especially if you live in a low noise area
where you don't need lots of discrimination to hear DX (and even then
there are compact receive loops that make possible alternatives).
Dave AB7En 3/22/2013 12:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
For the newer hams, here's an interesting resource that will
demonstrate to you what a DX signal sounds like at 100 watts, 10
watts, 1 watt and 0.1 watt. All you have to do it tune into the
beacon frequency of 14.100, 18.110, 21.150, 24.930, 28.200 using CW
mode and listen. The beacon stations in 18 countries take turns
sending call signs and 4 dashes, each dash in descending power
level. You might be amazed at how often you can hear 10 watts or
less clearly from half way
around the world when the band is open.
When the band is not open, a kilowatt doesn't get through.
A complete list of the stations, locations and the transmission
sequence is
at:
http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon/beaconSchedule.html
IIRC, all of the stations use a simple 1/4 wave vertical antenna.
I'm not saying that an amplifier isn't useful, but this helps put
the advantage of having one in perspective.
73, Ron AC7AC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[email protected]
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[email protected]
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[email protected]
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[email protected]
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[email protected]
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
