Well said, Dave. Unlike another poster, you appear to have an excellent, first-hand knowledge of the problem. My 18 years as the line noise tech with the Montana Power Company validates your observations.
73 K0PP On Mar 16, 2016 11:09 AM, "Dave Olean" <[email protected]> wrote: > I murdered your e mail addresses going off the reflector. They came back > undelivered. 2nd try! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Olean" <[email protected]> > To: "Lewis Phelps" <[email protected]> > Cc: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; < > [email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 1:27 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: K3 and High Tension Wires > > > Lewis, >> I would have to respectfully disagree with a major portion of your >> comments. I would think a better way to discuss power line problems would >> be to admit that many power line designs for the medium voltages used in >> neighborhoods are not up to the task. How do I know this? I have had a >> running battle with an electric utility from the year 1999 up to the >> present. It has consumed so much of my time that I finally gave up without >> ever obtaining a lasting solution to my problem. In those fifteen years I >> became intimately aware of the problems that can plague above ground power >> distribution systems. I have even sat in on utility company training >> sessions, getting a first hand look at how the electric utility trains its >> line crews. >> >> "If the RF interference is caused by power line arcing, it’s going to get >> detected and fixed pretty quickly by the utility. If it’s there all the >> time, it very likely isn’t the power company at fault." >> >> I would argue that my attempt at power line noise resolution for over 15 >> years does not come anywhere near close to your statement above. The 19 and >> 34 KV lines really are just too problematic and cannot be expected to be >> quiet for any length of time. The noise gtenerated has nothing to do with >> the current carrying wires being too close together. It has everything to >> do with the huge voltage gradients near high voltage lines and the oxidized >> metal surfaces in that same area. As someone previously mentioned, staples >> on ground leads on poles are a constant source of noise. Bell insulators >> with metal on metal joints between sections are just not capable of >> remaining quiet for any length of time on these systems. Tie wraps holding >> wires to pole insulators are always failing. Metal to metal contacts seem >> to always fail. The electric utility Co does not like to use polymer >> insulators becuase they do not last as long as the bell insulators in their >> eyes. If they would use polymer insulators and remove those metal to metal >> oxidized surfaces, things would improve in a hurry. The systems are not >> designed properly for minimizing noise. They are only designed so that they >> will not fall down over time. 19 and 34 KV systems are the worst in my >> opinion. >> My situation got so bad that I had to contact the FCC to get the power >> company to even respond to my complaints. Only after receiving a registered >> letter from the FCC and Riley Hollingsworth did the power company try to >> help solve my problem. A second letter from Laura Smith at the FCC was also >> needed. After all of this I still had to expend tremendous amounts of time >> documenting all of the failures and hope that the utility would fix them in >> an aggressive manner. They never did. The technical people would come out >> and do a good job of corroborating my findings and writing them up for nthe >> crews, but the line crews always would come up short and fail to adequately >> fix the problems. Some of that was due to lack of understanding. Another >> part was due to the distribution system, as designed, was not really >> capable of being quiet for very long. There were just too many high voltage >> gradients around oxidized/corroded pieces of metal. An interesting point I >> noted was that the cable systems located on the same poles were almost >> never a source of noise for me. I can recall only one instance of CATV RFI >> and that involved cable leakage that affected the 145 MHz frequency range. >> So now I have a ham shack that has a nice view of a town 8 miles away >> along with a line of sight view of a 34.5 KV distribution line that feeds >> central New Hampshire. At any given time there are 20 or 30 individual >> noise emitters that are constantly bothering me on headings between 150 >> degrees, then out to the west, and then to NE at about 25 or 30 degrees >> azimuth. A sharp 144 MHz array allows me to pinpoint multiple noise >> sources. It gets worse on dry windy days. Low humidity makes all of the >> bell insulators start singing. Throw in a few arcing tie wraps or cracked >> insulators, and the cacophony is deafening. It has caused me to stop trying >> to use many frequencies as a result. The 10M, 6M, and 2M bands are >> unuseable now for any weak signal work. At times 222 and 432 MHz are >> bothered as well. If I turn my beams east into Maine, they use 7200 volt >> distribution there, around the village, and I have almost no noise >> problems. If there is a problem, it can be fixed and will stay quiet for >> years afterward. >> My only saving grace in other directions is that the K3 noise blanker >> system is quite effective. The signals do get distorted and the radio can >> easily overload, but it does a good job of removing noise so that I can >> hear weaker signals some times. Dry days with wind are unuseable for me. >> >> 73 >> Dave K1WHS >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis Phelps" <[email protected]> >> To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: K3 and High Tension Wires >> >> >> Drawing from a decade of experience working as head of the PR department >>> for a major electric utility (a long time ago), I’d like to suggest that >>> arcing per se should not be a problem at any time with any power line if it >>> is functioning properly. The individual transmission wires are spaced far >>> enough apart that arcing shouldn’t be possible. Many utilities regularly >>> wash down the insulators of high voltage transmission lines using >>> specialized equipment that cleans condensed salt water fog off the >>> insulators with deionized water (necessary to keep from zapping the guy >>> running the spray nozzle). This is to prevent arcing between phases, which >>> can otherwise occur in high humidity situations. If there’s noise coming >>> from lower-voltage distribution lines down “down the hill” I would name the >>> prime suspect as cable TV equipment that’s hung on the same utility poles >>> as the power line. If the RF interference is caused by power line arcing, >>> it’s going to get detected and fixed pretty quickly by the utility. If it’s >>> there all the time, it very likely isn’t the power company at fault. (This >>> discussion doesn’t include any consideration of Power Line Communication >>> technologies, which are an identifiably different kind of interference.) >>> >>> See: >>> http://tdworld.com/overhead-distribution/insulator-washing-helps-maintain-reliability >>> >>> >>> Lew N6LEW >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 15, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Alan <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> The 6 meter moonbouncer who lives up the hill from me told me he has no >>>> problem from the high-tension line that runs right by his place but has >>>> experienced noise from the lower-voltage lines farther down the hill. >>>> >>>> I suspect that HT lines are probably less likely to have arcing than >>>> lower-voltage lines, simply because it would be a much bigger problem for >>>> the power company if they did. >>>> >>>> Alan N1AL >>>> >>>> >>>> On 03/15/2016 02:27 PM, Jim Brown wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue,3/15/2016 12:56 PM, Rose wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It sounds like you're speaking of a distribution line. Do you have >>>>>> any idea that the voltage is? Is there more than one pole at each >>>>>> cross arm? It could be almost anything up to 240 KV ... or more. >>>>>> In my semi-rural area the voltage for distribution is 14.4 KV, which >>>>>> is pretty usual these days. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a high voltage distribution line running along my property line >>>>> that has not been a problem in the 10 years I've lived here, but >>>>> there's >>>>> been other power line noise around that's radiated from other poles. >>>>> >>>>> 73, Jim K9YC >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post: mailto:[email protected] >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>> Message delivered to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft < >>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm < >>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> >>>> Post: mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/> >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html < >>>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> >>>> Message delivered to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>> Lew Phelps N6LEW >>> Pasadena, CA DM04wd >>> Elecraft K3-10 / KXV144 / XV432 >>> Yaesu FT-7800 >>> [email protected] >>> www.n6lew.us >>> >>> Generalized Law of Entropy: Sooner or later, everything that has been >>> put together will fall apart. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[email protected] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to [email protected] >>> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[email protected] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [email protected]
