Everyone's setup and goals are different, but I can add my perspective on this topic having owned an LP-PAN2 for years. Plus I bought and owned a P3 with the VGA addon for comparison with the way I operate from my home station with my K3S. I also have tried both the RSP1a and the RSPduo with the LP-PAN2. Having spent time and money on all these solutions to compare them, it was a simple decision to return to the LP-PAN2 using the ASUS Xonar U7 to preset the I/Q output of the LP-PAN2 on screen for use on the desktop. Again, everyone has different requirements, so my conclusions won't match with what other ops want from a setup. Here is what I'll discuss. 1. P3, 2. SDRPlay SDR/RSP1/RSpduo etc.. connected to the IF output of the K3/S, 3. LP-PAN2 with an ASUS Xonar U7. The cliff notes version here concludes that for NG7M, option 3 is clearly the hands down winner for performance and desktop software integration. Again, other operators will disagree... I get it, everyone has different needs, expectations, budget and patience required to understand and setup each of these solutions.
1. The P3 with the VGA add-on daughter card: My most recent purchase out of all these solutions was the P3 with the VGA addon board. For an external toaster setup, you can't go wrong here, it worked great but based on my in the shack operating, contests and DX'ing, I never used it or even looked at it while I had the LP-PAN2 setup running in parallel. But for plug and play for someone that doesn't want to mess with software etc... it might be the best solution. It was simply clunky for me to look at the P3 display or look at the separate dedicated monitor for the VGA output. Plus no easy point and click operating. No integration at the desktop software level using N1MM's spectrum display or a windowed output of the VGA adapter. (yes I'm aware of VGA capture devices that could be used, but they bring a new set of complexity to the table) It was an interesting exercise. I sold the P3 after a few months. It was just taking up space and most of the time I never turned it on while operating in the shack, however it did look nice sitting there when I looked at it while not operating. :) Have I missed the P3 based on the way I operate. No... not at all. All the while I was using my LP-PAN setup side by side and I used the Spectrum display in Win4K3Suite and while contesting fed the UDP feed from Win4K3Suite's spectrum into the native N1MM spectrum... integrated spots and signal detection for search and pounce... non of this possible with the P3. So if you want a turn-key setup and you want to look at a separate monitor with a separate keyboard and mouse to poke around with the P3 output, it might work great and it would work great for a DX pile up and just tuning around and seeing what is going on, on the band. It's the easiest setup hands down and you can take the P3 remote very easily etc... the P3 was simply not for me and the way I operate. Plus this is the most expensive solution out of the setups I have tried. If you don't want to mess with and tweak an I/Q based sound card setup or external USB SDR setup, you might as well stop reading and get out your credit card and buy this solution. The P3 will always hold a pretty good resale value. I easily sold mine for what I paid for it a few months later and it's likely getting used now rather than collecting dust in my shack. 2. SDRPlay SDR, i.e. an RSP1/a or one of the other flavors like the RSPduo connected directly to the IF out of the K3/S. This is an easy setup for sure and I used it with Win4K3Suite's direct support of this solution. Super easy setup and you get the native output of the Win4K3Suite spectrum display which you can feed to N1MM's native spectrum display. Why didn't I stick with this solution? #1 I had already see the superior performance of the LP-PAN2 with a high end sound card prior to trying this solution. I couldn't handle the dynamic range blocking issues and the pumping spectrum display in contests with strong adjacent signals. The performance paled into comparison with the LP-PAN2 and a Xonar U7 sound care. For a description and comparison of the dynamic range blocking performance of the USB dongle SDR's in comparison to an LP-PAN2 pan adapter with a USB soundcard setup, take a look at N8LP's measurements here: http://www.telepostinc.com/dongle_comp.html (likely needs some updates on the cost comparison here) And yes! Larry N8LP is bias here because he sells the LP-PAN2 solution, but my experience and findings match the numbers he shows... ~80dB of dynamic range with an RSP1 for example as compared to 119dB with an LP-PAN2 Asus Xonar sound card setup. ~85-85dB to ~119dB is huge and it shows when you have tried both solutions. Plus the SDRPlay SDR's use 14 bit DAC's as compared to a Xonar 7's 24 bit DAC. If you want to investigate the difference here as it relates to SNR, wikipedia has a good article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth And yes, there is a big difference between 14bits and 24bits, but bit depth doesn't impact frequency response. For me, the dynamic range performance with the SDRPlay solution was a deal breaker. I sold the RSP1 after a few weeks. (I also own a newer RSPduo I tinker with but do not use for HF spectrum display output while operating) My conclusion, if you want a quick and dirty spectrum display on the desktop in a window and integration with N1MM's native spectrum display etc... this is a great option using Win4K3Suite. You sacrifice dynamic range blocking in a big way with this setup. The cost is ~$125 for an RSP1a and $65 for Win4K3Suite. Yes I get it... there are other free solutions for on screen output of the RSP1a. But for integration in N1MM's spectrum via the UDP feed Win4K3Suite provides and all the other feature / virtual K3 CAT port management Win4K3Suite provides, it's a no brainer for me. Less than ~$200 for this solution if you are willing to sacrifice dynamic range blocking. I have a detailed YouTube video that shows the virtual CAT feed features of the Win4K3Suite software, but I digress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbf7BPfcj4U Once you have tried option 3 below and have the patience to set it up... you will see why option 3 is the clear winner for my style of operating in the shack. (your different opinion is valid etc... it's all about your style and appetite for eeking out the best performance) 3. N8LP's LP-PAN2 connected to the K3/S IF output with I/Q output of the LP-PAN2 feed to a high end USB sound card like an Asus U5/U7. Okay, first off... let's point out that Larry N8LP stopped selling the LP-PAN2 in Oct of 2019 but is still fully supported. This sad news, because I think the issue here is that most guys are NOT willing to pay the price to setup this solution and get it working right. No pain, no gain is my conjecture here. This hardware setup with my K3S in conjunction with Win4K3Suite's spectrum display and UDP spectrum feed support into N1MM is the clear winner for me. Hands down. If are willing to do some research and take your time with the setup here, you will be rewarded with superior performance over the above solutions... including better performance than what you get with the P3. So until something better comes out with the K4 (yes I have a K4HD on order by the way), this is the clear winner for me on performance and desktop software flexibility. The K4 and eventual desktop software integration may convince me to stop using my LP-PAN2, but that is down the road for now. And before someone accuses me of being a fan boy of Win4K3Suite let me say yes! I'm a fan boy of Win4K3Suite and I have tried the alternatives like NaP3... I used NaP3 a lot before Win4K3Suite came out, but the CAT sharing in Win4K3Suite and the reliability of Win4K3Suite is a hands down winner in my opinion compared to NaP3 and LP-Bridge for CAT feed sharing. That is a whole other topic. If you are sticking with your K3/S and not making the move to a K4 any time soon and you want the best performance of an on screen / flexible spectrum display solution that integrates with N1MM and or any other software supporting the UDP protocol used by N1MM (including the need to feed your spectrum display output over the internet), then this is the best setup I would recommend if you are willing to read some documentation and get things setup / hooked up with the LP-PAN2, USB Asus U7 and Win4K3Suite. (if you can't bare the $65 price for Win4K3Suite, then use LP-Bridge and NaP3 or some other free-b software for the spectrum output using I/Q output of the LP-PAN2 and sound card integration.) If you want performance and desktop flexibility and you are sticking with your K3/S, find a used LP-PAN2 and hold on to it for the time being. I can already hear the whiners getting ready to start typing a response... it's a no pain, no gain preposition here. Do the research if you are looking for the best desktop software integration and dynamic range blocking performance of your direct IF output spectrum of your K3/S, then my opinion and recommendation is clear... you buy three things, a used LP-PAN2, an Asus U7 or U5 (I have only used the U7) and Win4K3Suite and don't look back. And you take the time to set it up right and understand how the pieces fit together. It's not my problem if you can't do the research and understand the setup. And this setup should be usable right out of the box when the K4 ships and will bridge the gap until native spectrum data output on the K4 network interface is fully supported by N1MM / other desktop spectrum software. Whew! Did anyone read all of this NG7M soap box drivel? :) Max NG7M On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 9:55 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > Been in the same situation, finally had luck and could buy a used P3 for > a reasonable price. Not fully loaded, but I can second it was worth the > investment. I played with different panadapters and SDR-software in the > past and have given up on this. The integration/configuration is not a > dream. Keeping the config stable with "plug'n'pray" USB-Soundcards isn't > fun. > The only thing I would like to see in the P3 is a smaller size given the > box is mostly empty. > 73 good luck > Gernot DF5RF > > > Am 17.02.2020 um 16:42 schrieb [email protected]: > > I've been fighting getting the P3 for years. After trying to get SDR > based > > pan adapters to work reliably (I like the mouse point and tune feature) > I've > > decided I want to buy a toaster. > > > > Just plug it in and it works. > > > > A fully loaded 200watt P3 with video card..etc is hard to swallow when I > can > > buy a new HF rig with the Pan adapter built in for less. > > > > Are there plans to have a sale or bigger discount? > > > > My time frame for purchase is March. I'll probably be going to the > > Charlotte, NC Hamfest for the purchase unless I'm on call that week. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > Jerry Moore > > > > AE4PB > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[email protected] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to [email protected] > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[email protected] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [email protected] > -- M. George ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[email protected] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [email protected]
