I bought a new IC-7000, a month out of warranty main board failed. Cost me near $1k including shipping. I share your pain….but I won’s scapegoat Elecraft whom I have had great repair dealings with over the years. Gene KH6XJ
> On Jan 14, 2022, at 10:26 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > Send Elecraft mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Elecraft digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Elecraft -- tarnished, bent and broken crown (Tim C) > 2. Re: New wattmeter plans? ([email protected]) > 3. Re: New wattmeter plans? (jerry) > 4. Re: New wattmeter plans? (Tom Ewing) > 5. Re: New wattmeter plans? (Jim Brown) > 6. New wattmeter plans? (Bob McGraw) > 7. Re: New wattmeter plans? (Josh Fiden) > 8. Re: New wattmeter plans? (jerry) > 9. Re: New wattmeter plans? (Charles K0MV) > 10. For Sale: Cumbria Designs Mini-DSP Filter Kit (Doug Hensley) > 11. Re: New wattmeter plans? (Jim Brown) > 12. K4 Update "Network Failure" error (Mark / WU6R) (Mark Wheeler) > 13. Re: K4 Update "Network Failure" error (Mark / WU6R) > (Bayard Coolidge, N1HO) > 14. SOLD - DSP Filter Kit is SOLD (Doug Hensley) > 15. Re: K4 Update "Network Failure" error (Mark / WU6R) (Mark Wheeler) > 16. [OT] Loss in window line [OPINION] [LONG] (Al Lorona) > 17. Re: [OT] Loss in window line [OPINION] [LONG] ([email protected]) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 22:29:33 +0000 > From: Tim C <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft -- tarnished, bent and broken crown > Message-ID: > > <ch2pr13mb4523abf95e043ef513c185bce1...@ch2pr13mb4523.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Elecraft - Tarnished, bent and broken crown. For many years I believed > Elecraft was king. Now I'm not so sure. I purchased a KPA500 and KAT500. I > assumed with all the trouble, protective, and shutdown circuits they would > last a long time and probably never need service. > > The Elecraft service tech erroneously advise me to ship it to Calif when it > would not transmit which cost $71. Turn out to be an interface cable and not > the amp. The amp didn't need to be shipped. I had to pay $67 for another > cable which should have been warranted. > > Some months past and the amp wouldn't transmit again. An Elecraft services > tech advised me to ship it back to calif since it was under warrantee. This > time the shipper charged $140 because the nursing home where I live was > required to ship it commercial and insured. The tech could have suggest the > obviously burned resister be replaced. > > I have been a ham for over 50 years. I had a SB-220 for over 40 years and > never had to disassemble it for repairs. I've owned Yaesu's, Icom's and > Alinco's, all new, and never had ship any of them for repairs or even repair > them after years of use. > > I have always heard only praise for Elecraft product. There are less costly > tuners and amps on the market but I believed Elecraft would be the most > durable and reliable. > > Before I purchase another Elecraft product I will do even more research and > comparisons. > > 73, Tim WB8HRO > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 18:26:26 -0500 > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New wattmeter plans? > Message-ID: <004401d808d4$fc9f31d0$f5dd9570$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Look at the Telepost meters: > http://www.telepostinc.com/ > > John KK9A > > > Steve Masticola WX2S wrote: > > I bought a W2 today, because my Meterbuilder MB-1 wattmeter's directional > coupler died and the product seems to be an orphan. But I wonder if Elecraft > has any plans to bring out an updated wattmeter. The W2's design is ten > years old, and the LED bargraph displays are getting a bit long in the > tooth. > Any rumors, or more than rumors? > > 73, -Steve WX2S > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 15:56:44 -0800 > From: jerry <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New wattmeter plans? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On 2022-01-13 15:26, [email protected] wrote: >> Look at the Telepost meters: >> http://www.telepostinc.com/ >> > *** Wow. > > OK, I ordered one. > > - Jerry KF6VB > > > > >> John KK9A >> >> >> Steve Masticola WX2S wrote: >> >> I bought a W2 today, because my Meterbuilder MB-1 wattmeter's >> directional >> coupler died and the product seems to be an orphan. But I wonder if >> Elecraft >> has any plans to bring out an updated wattmeter. The W2's design is ten >> years old, and the LED bargraph displays are getting a bit long in the >> tooth. >> Any rumors, or more than rumors? >> >> 73, -Steve WX2S >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[email protected] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [email protected] > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 17:57:16 -0600 > From: Tom Ewing <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New wattmeter plans? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > I have two W2 meters and like them. > > I?m also a Powermaster II fan. > >> On Jan 13, 2022, at 5:27 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> ?Look at the Telepost meters: >> http://www.telepostinc.com/ >> >> John KK9A >> >> >> Steve Masticola WX2S wrote: >> >> I bought a W2 today, because my Meterbuilder MB-1 wattmeter's directional >> coupler died and the product seems to be an orphan. But I wonder if Elecraft >> has any plans to bring out an updated wattmeter. The W2's design is ten >> years old, and the LED bargraph displays are getting a bit long in the >> tooth. >> Any rumors, or more than rumors? >> >> 73, -Steve WX2S >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[email protected] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [email protected] > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 16:24:46 -0800 > From: Jim Brown <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New wattmeter plans? > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > On 1/13/2022 3:26 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> Look at the Telepost meters: >> http://www.telepostinc.com/ > > Yes. I've been using LP100A with two probes in my SO2R station for 8-10 > years. Recently bought a second one to go inline with my long 6M Yagi, > which is on the second antenna port of the KPA1500. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 19:18:20 -0600 > From: Bob McGraw <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Elecraft] New wattmeter plans? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Why not just buy a nice clean Bird 43P and a new element or two. Not > hamfest elements.?? That works for me and gives total confidence on what > I see as power output.?? Of course if one desires all equipment to > match, then so be it. > > 73 > > Bob, K4TAX > > On 1/13/2022 3:23 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> Message: 22 >> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 03:04:24 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Steve Masticola<[email protected]> >> To:"[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Subject: [Elecraft] New wattmeter plans? >> Message-ID:<[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> I bought a W2 today, because my Meterbuilder MB-1 wattmeter's directional >> coupler died and the product seems to be an orphan. But I wonder if Elecraft >> has any plans to bring out an updated wattmeter. The W2's design is ten >> years old, and the LED bargraph displays are getting a bit long in the tooth. >> Any rumors, or more than rumors? >> >> 73, -Steve WX2S > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 17:50:09 -0800 > From: Josh Fiden <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New wattmeter plans? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Bird is a classic, I keep one on out of my 6m amp. But they?re not cheap. > Comparing cost and features with an LP100A not a hard choice IMHO. > > 73, > Josh W6XU > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jan 13, 2022, at 5:19 PM, Bob McGraw <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> ?Why not just buy a nice clean Bird 43P and a new element or two. Not >> hamfest elements. That works for me and gives total confidence on what I >> see as power output. Of course if one desires all equipment to match, then >> so be it. >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 18:03:29 -0800 > From: jerry <[email protected]> > To: Josh Fiden <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New wattmeter plans? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > On 2022-01-13 17:50, Josh Fiden wrote: >> Bird is a classic, I keep one on out of my 6m amp. But they?re not >> cheap. Comparing cost and features with an LP100A not a hard choice >> IMHO. > > *** Room for both. I have a Bird 4410a. Multiple ranges - > can measure from QRP up to 10kW. An Ebay deal. Don't know > how well it's calibrated, and it doesn't do peak power. > > So I just ordered an LP100A. With the work I've been doing with > linear amplifiers, I am very interested in accurate power readings. > > - Jerry KF6VB > > > > > >> >> 73, >> Josh W6XU >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Jan 13, 2022, at 5:19 PM, Bob McGraw <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> ?Why not just buy a nice clean Bird 43P and a new element or two. Not >>> hamfest elements. That works for me and gives total confidence on >>> what I see as power output. Of course if one desires all equipment >>> to match, then so be it. >>> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[email protected] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [email protected] > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 19:07:21 -0700 > From: Charles K0MV <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New wattmeter plans? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I came across this very interesting presentation that you may find > informative: > > https://www.hamradioworkbench.com/uploads/1/1/9/9/119903037/k6jey_wattmeter_talk.pdf > > 73, > > Chuck K0MV > > > On 1/13/22 7:03 PM, jerry wrote: >> On 2022-01-13 17:50, Josh Fiden wrote: >>> Bird is a classic, I keep one on out of my 6m amp. But they?re not >>> cheap. Comparing cost and features with an LP100A not a hard choice >>> IMHO. >> >> *** Room for both.? I have a Bird 4410a.? Multiple ranges - >> can measure from QRP up to 10kW.? An Ebay deal.? Don't know >> how well it's calibrated, and it doesn't do peak power. >> >> ? So I just ordered an LP100A.? With the work I've been doing with >> linear amplifiers, I am very interested in accurate power readings. >> >> ???????????????? - Jerry KF6VB >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> 73, >>> Josh W6XU >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On Jan 13, 2022, at 5:19 PM, Bob McGraw <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Why not just buy a nice clean Bird 43P and a new element or two. >>>> Not hamfest elements.?? That works for me and gives total confidence >>>> on what I see as power output.?? Of course if one desires all >>>> equipment to match, then so be it. >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[email protected] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to [email protected] >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[email protected] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [email protected] > -- > Charles K0MV > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:24:39 +0000 > From: Doug Hensley <[email protected]> > To: Elecraft List <[email protected]> > Subject: [Elecraft] For Sale: Cumbria Designs Mini-DSP Filter Kit > Message-ID: > > <sa0pr19mb4409b1227c97a74f4938e95f91...@sa0pr19mb4409.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I have a DSP Audio filter kit that I don't have time to use and thought > I would offer it here for anyone with a K1 or K2 that might want to try > adding their own DSP Audio Filter. > > Cumbria Designs was a British concern famous for its "X-Lock" VFO > stabilizer used on many K1's and older gear with a VFO that was a free > running oscillator. Works miracles. > > This Mini DSP Audio Filter kit was one of their last kits (they closed > doors and moved on to other things) and offered personal tailoring > of the audio product. I can send a data sheet to anyone interested. > The kit I have has never been gone through, never touched except > to store for a better day. Looking at it I would think anyone who > successfully built their own K1 or K2 could also handle this. Having > said that, I also think this kit is not for beginners. You should have > some good experiences under your belt. > > I'm asking $125 plus $5 shipping. > > QSL if interested. I'm shutting down now for the night so will not be > able to reply to anyone until tomorrow AM. > > Thank you, > > Doug W5JV > > > > > Visit https://www.qrz.com/db/W5JV for some great vacuum tube finds. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 19:01:33 -0800 > From: Jim Brown <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New wattmeter plans? > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > On 1/13/2022 5:50 PM, Josh Fiden wrote: >> Bird is a classic, I keep one on out of my 6m amp. But they?re not cheap. >> Comparing cost and features with an LP100A not a hard choice IMHO. > > Yes, it's a classic. But the LP100A comes with individually calibrated > probes, has peak reading modes, reads complex impedance, and is capable > of greater precision. Early in the life of the K3, I'd heard on good > authority that an LP100A was in use at Elecraft for final test. > > I have two Birds and a large stash of elements, but they only get used > for bench and troubleshooting. I just made a gift of one to a friend who > got burned out in the major wildfire that almost got us too. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:28:58 -0000 > From: Mark Wheeler <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: Mark Wheeler <[email protected]> > Subject: [Elecraft] K4 Update "Network Failure" error (Mark / WU6R) > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Tried to do a K4 update yesterday from R26 to R28 and I get a network > failure. Ethernet cable is attached and blinking but K4 does not see it. > Replaced cable with same results.K4 update screen says "Production Release > 0"; not sure what I'm doing wrong.Mark WU6ROn Jan 13, 2022, at 4:26 PM, > [email protected] wrote:Send Elecraft mailing list submissions > [email protected] subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visithttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftor, via email, send a > message with subject or body 'help' [email protected] can > reach the person managing the list [email protected] > replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: > Contents of Elecraft digest..."Today's Topics: 1. New K4 beta software > available (Release 28) (Wayne Burdick) 2. Re: K3s USB sound card not > receiving MMTTY audio (Mike Dodd) 3. K3s USB sound card not receiving MMTTY > audio ([email protected]) 4. post > ing to list ([email protected]) 5. Internet / cell phones ([email protected]) 6. Re: > Internet / cell phones (Thorsten Fricke) 7. OT Donating Surplus Gear (Paul > Huff) 8. Re: OT Donating Surplus Gear (David Hourdequin) 9. KPA1500 reflected > power faults (Steve Masticola) 10. Re: KPA1500 reflected power faults (Jim > Brown) 11. Re: OT Donating Surplus Gear (Barry Baines) 12. Re: KPA1500 > reflected power faults ([email protected]) 13. on a K3 with dual receivers, > can I listen on 2 different bands? (David F. Reed) 14. Re: on a K3 with dual > receivers, can I listen on 2 different bands? (Rich) 15. Re: on a K3 with > dual receivers, can I listen on 2 different bands? (David F. Reed) 16. Re: > KPA1500 reflected power faults (Jim McCook) 17. K3 fails 5W and 50W TX > calibration (Edward Seeliger) 18. RemoteRig - Control-RRC (Steve Orland | > AA6AA) 19. Re: K3 fails 5W and 50W TX calibration (Jim McCook) 20. Re: > KPA1500 reflected power faults (Steve Masticola) 21. K2 Menu and Tune Buttons > (Aaron K5ATG) 22. Ne > w wattmeter plans? (Steve Masticola) 23. 40 meter SSB net, Jan 9, 7.280 > (Steve Hall) 24. KX2 for sale (Richard > Gilley)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: > 1Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:43:31 -0800From: Wayne Burdick > <[email protected]>To: Elecraft Reflector <[email protected]>Subject: > [Elecraft] New K4 beta software available (Release 28)Message-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=us-asciiRelease 28 is now available as beta, with several new > features (including the DVR) and major improvements. Upgrading is strongly > recommended in order to remain current.Release notes for R28 are listed > below. These as well as earlier release notes can also be found on our > website, as well as directly at the radio itself in the UPDATE > utility.********************************************NOTE: IF YOU USE NON-FLAT > TRANSMIT EQ, you will need to re-adjust the settings one timeafter loading > this softw > are release. Seerelease notes for > details.********************************************73,WayneN6KR======================== > RELEASE 28 ============================= FUNCTIONAL CHANGES =====AUDIO > OUTPUT IMPROVED BY 10 DB: In previous releases, maximum audio output may have > been as much as 10 dB lower than the target value with some combinations of > the AGC slope and threshold menu settings. Now, maximum AF output is > pre-compensated for AGC behavior. This results in a minimum speaker output of > about 1.5 W into 4 ohms and 1.0 W into 8 ohms. (The new AF output > specification will be at 1 W rather than 2 W.)S-METER NOW 6 dB PER S-UNIT: > S-meter calibration now matches the more common industry standard. > (Previously it was 5 dB per S-unit.) With this change, each tic mark of the > S-meter graphic represents 3 dB.DVR (DIGITAL VOICE RECORDER): The DVR can now > be used for transmit voice message record/play. There are 8 messages (2 banks > of 4). Tap REC, then follow on-screen prompts. Message > s can be played without on-air transmit by using transmit test mode (TEST > switch). Maximum message length is 90 seconds. NEW BACKUP/RESTORE FUNCTION: > Tap Fn, then hold BACKUP. This brings up the backup/restore screen. You can > select whether to backup or restore five categories of data, including > General Configuration, Frequency Memories, PF Key and K-Pod Macros, > CW/PSK/FSK messages, DVR messages, and Diagnostic Logs.SEPARATE TX MONITOR > LINE-OUT LEVEL CONTROL: Use TX Monitor Level, Line Out menu entry. Applies to > both sidetone and voice monitoring, as well as to both analog and digital > line out.ICON CHANGE FOR RX DYNAMIC RANGE OPTIMIZATION: The original icon, a > visual hybrid of 'D' and 'R', was judged too cryptic by users. The new icon > is "DR+", allowing the operator to for search for it in the operating > manual.BUILT-IN OPERATING MANUAL UPDATED TO REV. C12. Covers all recent > changes.===== BUG FIXES =====TX EQ SLIDERS NOW +/- 16 dB: The EQ sliders had > been incorrectly set to + > /- 4 dB. If you use non-flat EQ, you may need to do a one-time readjustment > of the sliders.ELIMINATED DUAL IP ADDRESSES for the radio. This occurred very > rarely.MENU IP ADDRESS FIELD EXPANDED: The parameter field now accommodates > 12-digit IP addresses.ELIMINATED LOSS OF AUDIO on power-up (rare).VFO STEP > RATE PRESERVED across power-downs.TX METERS STAY ON IF SPLIT TURNED ON/OFF > WHILE TRANSMITTING.SBC DATE CORRECTED ON 3V BATTERY SWAP.===== FOR SOFTWARE > DEVELOPERS =====ADDED VO$ COMMAND (VFO OFFSET). This can be used to directly > offset either VFO by a specified amount.ADDED XVTR SUPPORT FOR BN+; and BN-; > commands.FI$; COMMAND AI RESPONSE NOW SENT ON BAND > CHANGE.------------------------------Message: 2Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 > 18:30:26 -0500From: Mike Dodd <[email protected]>To: > [email protected]: Re: [Elecraft] K3s USB sound card not > receiving MMTTY audioMessage-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=UTF-8; format=flowedOn > 1/10/2022 2:50 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:You can eliminate this problem in the > future by just leaving it on LINE IN all the time.? Of course, that makes > phone hard but it works for me. ?I believe the MIC=LINE IN is automatically > set when I select DATA MD = AFSK-A, so it's a puzzle to me why this wasn't > the case on Saturday when I set up for RU. At least I know to check it next > time I use RTTY.73, Mike N4CF------------------------------Message: 3Date: > Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:21:12 -0500From: <[email protected]>To: > <[email protected]>Subject: [Elecraft] K3s USB sound card not > receiving MMTTY audioMessage-ID: > <002401d80681$23f73120$6be59360$@com>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii"Great that you have this resolved but unfortunate that it > occurred after theARRL RTTY Roundup. I use FSK for RTTY transmission which so > far has beenvery simple and stable.GLJohn KK9A (W4AAA in 2022 RU)Mike Dodd > N4CF wrote:That's what I remember, and after I set MIC SEL = Line In for RTTY > (AFSK A) > on 80m, it was set that way on all bands. I'm sure I had it set up this way > in the past, and I have no idea why it wasn't set correctly yesterday at the > start of RTTY RU.Anyway, now I know what to check if it happens again.73, > Mike N4CF------------------------------Message: 4Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 > 19:21:19 -0500From: <[email protected]>To: <[email protected]>Subject: > [Elecraft] posting to listMessage-ID: > <002501d80681$27ec1200$77c43600$@com>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii"You're posting a message with no content.Jack Donovan > wrote:Mon Jan 10 12:25:20 EST 2022------------------------------Message: > 5Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:21:25 -0500From: <[email protected]>To: > <[email protected]>Subject: [Elecraft] Internet / cell > phonesMessage-ID: <002601d80681$2b725290$8256f7b0$@com>Content-Type: > text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Brilliant, Jim!Jim Clymer ws6x wrote:Anyone > else see the irony here?"Sent from my iPhone"!!!Jim - WS6XOn Mon, Jan 10, > 2022, 10:18 AM Vincent Di > ak <unclebend13 at gmail.com>wrote:We all should spend less time on our cell > phone's and the internet. Thenwe would not be wondering why our hobby is > fading away . When there werenocell phones and internet to communicate we had > cw - ham radio and landline. The internet has taken these away. Good or bad? > We now carry theworld in our pocket . Next will be chip programmed to > communicate withoutcell phones and the internet 666 just like the Bible > says.Sent from my iPhone------------------------------Message: 6Date: Tue, 11 > Jan 2022 14:14:51 +0100From: Thorsten Fricke <[email protected]>To: > [email protected]: Re: [Elecraft] Internet / cell > phonesMessage-ID: <[email protected]>Content-Type: > text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowedAgree, this is really brilliant > *lol*Am 11.01.22 um 01:21 schrieb [email protected]:Brilliant, Jim!Jim Clymer > ws6x wrote:Anyone else see the irony here?"Sent from my iPhone"!!!Jim - > WS6XOn Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 10:18 AM Vince > nt Diak <unclebend13 at gmail.com>wrote:We all should spend less time on our > cell phone's and the internet. Thenwe would not be wondering why our hobby is > fading away . When there werenocell phones and internet to communicate we had > cw - ham radio and landline. The internet has taken these away. Good or bad? > We now carry theworld in our pocket . Next will be chip programmed to > communicate withoutcell phones and the internet 666 just like the Bible > says.Sent from my > iPhone______________________________________________________________Elecraft > mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: > http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[email protected] > list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: > http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to > [email protected]: 7Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 > 08:32:10 -0500From: Paul Huff <[email protected]>To: Elecraft Email List > <[email protected] > .net>Subject: [Elecraft] OT Donating Surplus GearMessage-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=utf-8With my wife?s encouragement, I recently purchased my ?holy > grail? radio - an Elecraft KX3. Along with this purchase came the decision > to reduce my radio ?footprint? and get rid of a lot of my old gear that is no > longer getting much use. Some of this equipment has some non-trivial > monetary value, but I don?t need the money, I don?t want to go through the > hassle of trying to sell it, and I don?t want to deal with shipping issues. > I want to just give it away locally, preferably to a club that could use it > (or the proceeds from selling it) to help younger or disadvantaged hams get > on the air.I?m a 100% QRP/CW operator and most of this stuff relates to that. > The gear includes an Elecraft K1, Rockmite 30, SST40, MFJ Versa Tuner II, > Astron PS, various accessories and numerous books. I have a 3-page pdf > document that gives a comple > te list. Almost everything is in perfect working order and there are both > hard and digital copies for most of the owners manuals.I will organize > everything, box it up, and can deliver it to just about anywhere in the SE > Michigan area. I want to donate all of it as a group and not piece it out a > little bit at a time. If you are associated with a local club that could use > this donation to promote ham radio, or know somebody who is, please contact > me off the list.Thanks and 73,Paul Huff - N8XMSLivonia, > MI------------------------------Message: 8Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 08:34:53 > -0500From: David Hourdequin <[email protected]>To: Paul Huff > <[email protected]>Cc: Elecraft Email List > <[email protected]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Donating Surplus > GearMessage-ID: <[email protected]>Content-Type: > text/plain; charset=utf-8More of us need to be doing more of ?this?! > Thnaks for the inspiration Paul!73, David, NS4VDavid R. Hourdequin, PEHeavy > Timber & > Glulam EngrgP.O. Box 1399Hayesville, NC. [email protected] Jan > 11, 2022, at 8:32 AM, Paul Huff <[email protected]> wrote:With my wife?s > encouragement, I recently purchased my ?holy grail? radio - an Elecraft KX3. > Along with this purchase came the decision to reduce my radio ?footprint? and > get rid of a lot of my old gear that is no longer getting much use. Some of > this equipment has some non-trivial monetary value, but I don?t need the > money, I don?t want to go through the hassle of trying to sell it, and I > don?t want to deal with shipping issues. I want to just give it away > locally, preferably to a club that could use it (or the proceeds from selling > it) to help younger or disadvantaged hams get on the air.I?m a 100% QRP/CW > operator and most of this stuff relates to that. The gear includes an > Elecraft K1, Rockmite 30, SST40, MFJ Versa Tuner II, Astron PS, various > accessories and numerous books. I have a 3-page pdf document that gives a > complete list. > Almost everything is in perfect working order and there are both hard and > digital copies for most of the owners manuals.I will organize everything, box > it up, and can deliver it to just about anywhere in the SE Michigan area. I > want to donate all of it as a group and not piece it out a little bit at a > time. If you are associated with a local club that could use this donation > to promote ham radio, or know somebody who is, please contact me off the > list.Thanks and 73,Paul Huff - N8XMSLivonia, > MI______________________________________________________________Elecraft > mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: > http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[email protected] > list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: > http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to > [email protected]: 9Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 > 16:33:44 +0000 (UTC)From: Steve Masticola <[email protected]>T > o: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>Subject: [Elecraft] > KPA1500 reflected power faultsMessage-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=UTF-8Hi, all,My KPA1500 is throwing a lot of reflected power faults > at power levels above 500 watts. The symptom is that the output power (as > indicated by the power LEDs) zooms up and then the amp faults. An external > MB-1 power meter indicates 2000 watts or more peak output when this happens.I > know the usual culprits (poor ground, RF in the shack, surge suppressors), > but I wonder if other owners are still having these problems, despite > attempts to fix.73, -Steve WX2S------------------------------Message: 10Date: > Tue, 11 Jan 2022 12:01:06 -0800From: Jim Brown > <[email protected]>To: [email protected]: Re: > [Elecraft] KPA1500 reflected power > faultsMessage-ID:<[email protected]>Content-Type: > text/plain; charset=UTF-8; for > mat=flowedOn 1/11/2022 8:33 AM, Steve Masticola via Elecraft wrote:I know the > usual culprits (poor ground, RF in the shack, surge suppressors), but I > wonder if other owners are still having these problems, despite attempts to > fix.I have grounding and bonding done right, no issues at all like this. It > IS common for a K3 to have a small power spike after changing its power > output, but this is typically less than 1 dB.73, Jim > K9YC------------------------------Message: 11Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 17:40:47 > -0600From: Barry Baines <[email protected]>To: Paul Huff > <[email protected]>Cc: Elecraft Email List > <[email protected]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Donating Surplus > GearMessage-ID: <[email protected]>Content-Type: > text/plain; charset=utf-8Paul:On Jan 11, 2022, at 7:32 AM, Paul Huff > <[email protected]> wrote:With my wife?s encouragement, I recently > purchased my ?holy grail? radio - an Elecraft KX3. Along with this purchase > came the decision to r > educe my radio ?footprint? and get rid of a lot of my old gear that is no > longer getting much use. Some of this equipment has some non-trivial > monetary value, but I don?t need the money, I don?t want to go through the > hassle of trying to sell it, and I don?t want to deal with shipping issues. > I want to just give it away locally, preferably to a club that could use it > (or the proceeds from selling it) to help younger or disadvantaged hams get > on the air.I?m a 100% QRP/CW operator and most of this stuff relates to that. > The gear includes an Elecraft K1, Rockmite 30, SST40, MFJ Versa Tuner II, > Astron PS, various accessories and numerous books. I have a 3-page pdf > document that gives a complete list. Almost everything is in perfect working > order and there are both hard and digital copies for most of the owners > manuals.I will organize everything, box it up, and can deliver it to just > about anywhere in the SE Michigan area. I want to donate all of it as a > group and not piece > it out a little bit at a time. If you are associated with a local club that > could use this donation to promote ham radio, or know somebody who is, > please contact me off the list.I donated my ?surplus? gear back in 2019 to a > high school amateur radio group in Gainesville, FL. My station is in SE > Georgia and I spent four years in Gainesville back in the late 70s, so I knew > the club?s advisor through the Gainesville Amateur Radio Society, We > reconnected in 2018 due to luck and circumstance and I subsequently learned > about the school?s amateur radio club. When I made the donation I drove to > the high school to deliver the ?goods? and later the advisor drove to my ham > station to pickup a second load. I documented the donation and provided > the list to the High School. They subsequently confirmed the receipt of > items donated, including an Icom IC-781, a Yaesu FT-736R, and an Alpha 9500. > Like you, I was primarily interested in passing good equipment to the ?next > generati > on? as well as seeing the equipment in active service as it was sitting on > shelves. An active high school club fits that requirement nicely. So one > thing to consider is looking to see if such clubs exist in your area. Local > hams may be serving as club advisors. Perhaps a local school experienced an > ARISS contact and has a relationship with an amateur club as a result of that > experience. Talk to local educators to see if they have such clubs at > particular schools. I still hear from the club advisor concerning the high > school amateur radio club and the activities of the students. I believe my > donation has had an impact on students which makes me feel that I?ve a made a > difference for those that are using this equipment as well as enhanced the > high school?s club activity.FWIW,Barry Baines, WD4ASW/5Keller, TXThanks and > 73,Paul Huff - N8XMSLivonia, MI------------------------------Message: 12Date: > Tue, 11 Jan 2022 20:58:21 -0500From: <[email protected]>To: <[email protected]. > net>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 reflected power faultsMessage-ID: > <000001d80757$e0a77650$a1f662f0$@com>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii"Is it possible that something is heating or arcing in the > device you areusing to match your 43 ft vertical? John KK9ASteve Masticola > WX2SHi, all,My KPA1500 is throwing a lot of reflected power faults at power > levels above500 watts. The symptom is that the output power (as indicated by > the powerLEDs) zooms up and then the amp faults. An external MB-1 power > meterindicates 2000 watts or more peak output when this happens.I know the > usual culprits (poor ground, RF in the shack, surge suppressors),but I wonder > if other owners are still having these problems, despiteattempts to fix.73, > -Steve WX2S------------------------------Message: 13Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 > 03:39:46 +0000From: "David F. Reed" <[email protected]>To: Elecraft List > <[email protected]>Subject: [Elecraft] on a K3 with dual receivers, > can I listen on 2different > bands?Message-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=UTF-8; format=flowedOn a K3 with dual receivers, can I listen on 2 > different bands?If so, how (or where does it tell me how in the manual)?-- > Thanks & 73 de Dave, W5SV------------------------------Message: 14Date: Tue, > 11 Jan 2022 23:49:43 -0500From: Rich <[email protected]>To: > [email protected]: Re: [Elecraft] on a K3 with dual receivers, > can I listen on 2different bands?Message-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=UTF-8; format=flowedGoto:CONFIG - VFO IND - set it to YESYou can then > listen to different bands on each VFOYou may find more in the manual > regarding VFO IND.?? Mine is not handy so I am not sureRichOn 1/11/2022 22:39 > PM, David F. Reed wrote:On a K3 with dual receivers, can I listen on 2 > different bands?If so, how (or where does it tell me how in the > manual)?------------------------------Message: > 15Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 08:42:33 -0600From: "David F. Reed" > <[email protected]>To: Rich <[email protected]>Cc: > [email protected]: Re: [Elecraft] on a K3 with dual receivers, > can I listen on 2different bands?Message-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=us-asciiThanks Rich!73 de W5SV - David F. ReedOn Jan 11, 2022, at > 22:49, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:Goto:CONFIG - VFO IND - set it to > YESYou can then listen to different bands on each VFOYou may find more in the > manual regarding VFO IND. Mine is not handy so I am not sureRichOn > 1/11/2022 22:39 PM, David F. Reed wrote:On a K3 with dual receivers, can I > listen on 2 different bands?If so, how (or where does it tell me how in the > manual)?______________________________________________________________Elecraft > mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: > http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[email protected] > list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: > http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to > [email protected]: 16Date: Wed, 12 Jan > 2022 14:43:46 +0000From: Jim McCook <[email protected]>To: Elecraft Reflector > <[email protected]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 reflected power > faultsMessage-ID: <[email protected]>Content-Type: > text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowedSteve:? I went through this exact > problem until K6XX alerted me to the likely cause of corrupt? TXGAIN > calibration.? This was discussed recently and reaffirmed by Elecraft on this > reflector.? Most likely the problem originates from transmitting with either > 5 or 50 watts with the K3, which should ALWAYS be avoided.? I suggest you > redo the 5 and 50 watt TX Gain calibration individually on each band as K6XX > suggested. This should have been emphasized in the K3/K3S manuals.? 73, Jim > W6YA------------------------------Messa > ge: 17Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 21:41:02 +0000From: Edward Seeliger > <[email protected]>To: Elecraft reflector > <[email protected]>Subject: [Elecraft] K3 fails 5W and 50W TX > calibrationMessage-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=utf-8Today I tried to perform a K3 TX calibration using the K3 > Utility?and it fails calibration at the 160M (first frequency in the series) > attempt on both 5W and 50W settings. It freezes and remains with the TX light > illuminated. The power button will not turn the radio off. I must unplug the > rear power connector to turn it off. After reinserting the power connector > the power button and all other controls appear to work as they should until I > again attempt a TX power calibration. The radio is in Normal not Test mode.I > have sent a message to elecraft support but thought others here might have > had a similar problem and might have a solution.?The K3 is a s/n 6000+ K3 > with all suggested hardw > are upgrades and current firmware.Why did I attempt the TX calibration - I > read the recent suggestion about not setting the PWR to 5W - I use this K3 to > drive a high gain (low power input) linear and probably have at times set the > drive to around 5W.Thanks for any help or suggestions.Edd - > KD5M------------------------------Message: 18Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 14:11:06 > -0800From: "Steve Orland | AA6AA" <[email protected]>To: > <[email protected]>Subject: [Elecraft] RemoteRig - > Control-RRCMessage-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii"Does anyone in the Los Angeles County/Ventura County area > have a Control-RRCthat I can borrow for a day? My Control-RRC appears to be > malfunctioning.Tnx es 73,Steve------------------------------Message: 19Date: > Thu, 13 Jan 2022 00:03:14 +0000From: Jim McCook <[email protected]>To: Elecraft > Reflector <[email protected]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 fails 5W and > 50W TX calibrationMessage-ID: <4313 > [email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=UTF-8; format=flowedEdd:? Using the Utility for this process can have > problems.? I did it manually on each band.? K6XX also suggested to to it this > way.Connect a dummy load to the K3 output.Set the PWR control on the K3 to > exactly 5wSet CONFIG: TUN PWR to exactly 5wHold TUNE for 2-3 seconds.? Tap it > againRepeat the process at 50wReset TUN PWR to other than 5 or 50.? I use > 25Reset PWR in the K3 to the usual 100w settingRepeat everything above on > each band.Jim W6YA------------------------------Message: 20Date: Thu, 13 Jan > 2022 00:56:55 +0000 (UTC)From: Steve Masticola > <[email protected]>To: "[email protected]" > <[email protected]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 reflected power > faultsMessage-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=UTF-8Problem found. It was an intermittent fault on a bidirectional > coupler for a wattmeter. It finally fa > iled hard. When I took the coupler out of circuit, the amp behaved itself.73, > -Steve WX2S On Tuesday, January 11, 2022, 11:33:44 AM EST, Steve Masticola > <[email protected]> wrote: Hi, all,My KPA1500 is throwing a lot of > reflected power faults at power levels above 500 watts. The symptom is that > the output power (as indicated by the power LEDs) zooms up and then the amp > faults. An external MB-1 power meter indicates 2000 watts or more peak output > when this happens.I know the usual culprits (poor ground, RF in the shack, > surge suppressors), but I wonder if other owners are still having these > problems, despite attempts to fix.73, -Steve WX2S > ------------------------------Message: 21Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 19:24:34 > -0600From: Aaron K5ATG <[email protected]>To: > [email protected]: [Elecraft] K2 Menu and Tune > ButtonsMessage-ID:<cadens2-ebyaea_jynu4eefbvh-olsdcxz2dydgozbnwx1rq...@mail.gmail.com>Content-Type: > text/plain; charset="UTF-8"This evening I tried > to get into the menu on my K2 and pushing orholding the MENU/EDIT button does > nothing at all. When I press the ANT1/2 Button it switches from Antenna 1 to > Antenna 2. However, when Ihold the button to tune with the internal ATU the > display LCD justshows Atu and the bar graph goes completely blank. This is > the firsttime that it has done this and it has been working just fine > untilnow. I'm not sure how to remedy this.-- '72Aaron > Scott------------------------------Message: 22Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 03:04:24 > +0000 (UTC)From: Steve Masticola <[email protected]>To: > "[email protected]" <[email protected]>Subject: [Elecraft] New > wattmeter plans?Message-ID: > <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=UTF-8I bought a W2 today, because my Meterbuilder MB-1 wattmeter's > directional coupler died and the product seems to be an orphan. But I wonder > if Elecraft has any plans to bring out an updated wattmeter. The W2's design > is ten > years old, and the LED bargraph displays are getting a bit long in the > tooth.Any rumors, or more than rumors?73, -Steve > WX2S------------------------------Message: 23Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:31:20 > -0500From: Steve Hall <[email protected]>To: > [email protected]: [Elecraft] 40 meter SSB net, Jan 9, > 7.280Message-ID:<CALdUqNO5rfMtVY8w8Xu=9xa4ebjkhvu_u2_ribya2ocg+d4...@mail.gmail.com>Content-Type: > text/plain; charset="UTF-8"THANKS TO ALL CHECKING IN AND TO RELAY > STATIONS.WM6P STEVE GA K4D #436W3SA JOHN NC TS890W9EJB ED IN K4D #498N8SBE > DAVE MI K3SKO4FCO BOB TN FTDX10NK9A STAN MIK5PD PETE TX K3W4TMW TOM GA > K4K4FKB CYRUS AL FT450DKD9TII RON IN FT900WB9JNZ ERIC IL FTDX101DNC0JW JIM CO > KX3W4DML DOUG TN K3VA2FH GILBERT QUEBEC > K3------------------------------Message: 24Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 16:23:00 > -0500From: Richard Gilley <[email protected]>To: > [email protected]: [Elecraft] KX2 for saleMessage-ID: > <[email protected]>Con > tent-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8HI, Selling my KX2 #02335 > purchased Dec 2017, Lightly used and includes:KXPD2 -paddleKXBT2 -LI > BatteryKXBC2 -ChargerKXAT2 -Ant TunerAX1/W40 meter coilTripod AdapterCase > (not CS40 or CS60)32? Counterpoise wireManualAsking $1100. Inc. shipping and > Insurance within the 48.Photos available at [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>Thank youR > GilleyAD1G------------------------------_______________________________________________Elecraft > mailing listPost to: > [email protected]http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftYou > must be a subscriber to post.Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.comEnd of > Elecraft Digest, Vol 213, Issue 5**************************************** > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:35:35 +0000 (UTC) > From: "Bayard Coolidge, N1HO" <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Mark > Wheeler <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 Update "Network Failure" error (Mark / > WU6R) > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > "R28" is still in beta testing, AFAICT, so you may have to forage around on > the firmware download menu screento make sure your K4 will download beta-test > firmware. > Either that, or wait a little while for the formal release. > 73, > Brandy, N1HO > > > On Friday, January 14, 2022, 09:30:36 AM EST, Mark Wheeler via Elecraft > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Tried to do a K4 update yesterday from R26 to R28 and I get a network > failure. Ethernet cable is attached and blinking but K4 does not see it. > Replaced cable with same results.K4 update screen says "Production Release > 0"; not sure what I'm doing wrong.Mark WU6ROn Jan 13, 2022, at 4:26 PM, > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:36:01 +0000 > From: Doug Hensley <[email protected]> > To: Elecraft List <[email protected]> > Subject: [Elecraft] SOLD - DSP Filter Kit is SOLD > Message-ID: > > <sa0pr19mb4409b26a5e2e8af56e71fc3091...@sa0pr19mb4409.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks to all who responded. > > ________________________________ > From: Doug Hensley > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 8:24 PM > To: Elecraft List <[email protected]> > Subject: For Sale: Cumbria Designs Mini-DSP Filter Kit > > I have a DSP Audio filter kit that I don't have time to use and thought > I would offer it here for anyone with a K1 or K2 that might want to try > adding their own DSP Audio Filter. > > Cumbria Designs was a British concern famous for its "X-Lock" VFO > stabilizer used on many K1's and older gear with a VFO that was a free > running oscillator. Works miracles. > > This Mini DSP Audio Filter kit was one of their last kits (they closed > doors and moved on to other things) and offered personal tailoring > of the audio product. I can send a data sheet to anyone interested. > The kit I have has never been gone through, never touched except > to store for a better day. Looking at it I would think anyone who > successfully built their own K1 or K2 could also handle this. Having > said that, I also think this kit is not for beginners. You should have > some good experiences under your belt. > > I'm asking $125 plus $5 shipping. > > QSL if interested. I'm shutting down now for the night so will not be > able to reply to anyone until tomorrow AM. > > Thank you, > > Doug W5JV > > > > > Visit https://www.qrz.com/db/W5JV for some great vacuum tube finds. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:50:49 -0000 > From: Mark Wheeler <[email protected]> > To: "Bayard Coolidge, N1HO" <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 Update "Network Failure" error (Mark / > WU6R) > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Is R26 still the most current for most users? Or is there an R27?73,Mark > WU6ROn Jan 14, 2022, at 9:35 AM, "Bayard Coolidge, N1HO" <[email protected]> > wrote:"R28" is still in beta testing, AFAICT, so you may have to forage > around on the firmware download menu screento make sure your K4 will download > beta-test firmware.Either that, or wait a little while for the formal > release.73,Brandy, N1HOOn Friday, January 14, 2022, 09:30:36 AM EST, Mark > Wheeler via Elecraft <[email protected]> wrote:Tried to do a K4 update > yesterday from R26 to R28 and I get a network failure. Ethernet cable is > attached and blinking but K4 does not see it. Replaced cable with same > results.K4 update screen says "Production Release 0"; not sure what I'm doing > wrong.Mark WU6ROn Jan 13, 2022, at 4:26 PM, > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:00:10 +0000 (UTC) > From: Al Lorona <[email protected]> > To: Elecraft Reflector <[email protected]> > Subject: [Elecraft] [OT] Loss in window line [OPINION] [LONG] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Whenever somebody mentions "window line" here, one of the first objections > raised is that "when it gets wet, it has very high loss".? > > The landmark paper cited is by Wes Stewart, N7WS, which can be found > here:?https://www.sadxa.org/n7ws/Ladder_Line.pdf?. > > I'm not trying to discredit that paper in any way, but I'd like to point out > two things to keep in mind the next time you hear someone completely and > summarily dismiss window line on the grounds that it has "high loss when > wet", and citing that paper: > > 1. You should note that Wes took measurements at 50 MHz. Window line is > rarely used at that frequency, and anyway the loss has to be extrapolated > back down to the HF region. For instance, if wet window line has a loss of > 5.2 dB at 50 MHz, the loss at 10 MHz is only 2.3 dB and at 3.5 MHz is 1.4 dB. > (See the paper for the equation to extrapolate to another frequency.) 1.4 dB > sounds a heck of a lot better than 5.2, and is on par with 100 feet of the > best coax you can buy. (We are talking only about matched line loss here, and > ignoring additional loss due to SWR.) So that's the first thing. > > 2. Wes's method involved the now legendary use of a "wetting agent" (I assume > soap of some kind) added to the water he sprayed onto his 12-foot sample of > transmission line to simulate rainy conditions on weathered line. To be fair, > Wes himself cautioned that this probably created a worst-case scenario but > judging from other references on the web this wetting agent has been blamed > for excessively inflating the loss to the point of questioning the relevance > of the experiment. DJ0IP and G3TXQ have both claimed that > (see?http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/wet_ll/?).??In G3TXQ's case, he was able to > replicate Wes's results by using "a few drops of washing-up liquid" but he > states, "It is not clear whether the high losses associated with using the > wetting agent were due to the more complete wetting of the line or to some > electrical properties of the agent. Nor is it clear how well this test > represents conditions that will be experienced in the 'real world'." > > What's happening to the line when it gets wet, and why should it's > characteristics change at all? To answer this, understand that in balanced > line, the energy is carried in the field between the conductors. Window line > has mostly polyethylene (PE) between the wires which has a dielectric > constant of 2.3, as opposed to air's which is 1.0. Spraying water-- which has > a dielectric constant of 80-- onto PE insulation changes the material > properties between the conductors and, thus, the capacitance. As capacitance > changes, so does? everything else: velocity factor, impedance, and loss. One > thing saving us from a catastrophic change in properties is that water tends > to bead up and remain as droplets, and droplets don't like to stay connected > with other droplets. So if you looked at a path perpendicularly across the > surface of the line, you'd see individual, sparse drops rather than a > continuous film of water. > > I couldn't find the dielectric constant of soapy water anywhere on the web -- > but let's assume that the number is close to that of pure water: 80. If you > could somehow give the field a *continuous* path of water from one side to > the other on the window line, you'd have significantly altered the dielectric > constant of the PE; you'd essentially have added a new "path" in "parallel" > with the PE with a dielectric constant some 35 times higher. Although it > would be a very thin layer, it nonetheless could have a significant effect, > as N7WS and G3TXQ have shown. > > We also have an important data point from Bob, K4TAX, showing that the loss > of Bob's window line is pretty much unaffected by rain, although the > electrical length does change. I'll address why this might be later on, but > the point is that this is credible, measured data. Why are these data so > different? > > I did discover that soapy water's pH is above 10 -- possibly as high as 12-- > indicating that there are abundant salts present, probably sodium and/or > potassium. These dissolved salts strongly ionize the water, greatly > increasing its conductivity (and perhaps changing its other electromagnetic > characteristics). On the other hand, rain water is essentially pure, much > closer to distilled water, with relatively few contaminants capable of being > ionized. > (See?https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/docs/cwt/guidance/3130en.pdf).? > > Having said all of this, when you study the G3TXQ paper I mentioned earlier, > there's a glaring data point: Steve measured nearly constant, high loss, > using soapy water, *from 7 through 30 MHz*. This confirms that an effect of > the soap is swamping out everything else. In other words, there's something > *in the soap itself* that is skewing the measurements beyond its intended > purpose. He just wanted the soap to make the water cling better, but it ended > up perturbing the very thing he was trying to measure (loss) way too much. > It's a little bit like taking a lot of vitamin D for health, which causes you > to become constipated! > > My conclusion is that using soap to make the water cling to the window line > was a brilliant idea but may have introduced much more error into the > measurement. I believe the trend is correct -- that clinging water will > increase loss-- but the absolute numbers aren't as realistic. G3TXQ's data > also shows loss he measured during moderate rainfall, but the increase is > from about 0.2 dB to 0.35 dB per 100 feet at 10 MHz. This is inconsequential > at the other end of the QSO, and is still far better than the best coax you > can buy. > > I guess one question is, as window line ages and gets attacked by smog, > becomes dirtier and more sun-baked, will it in fact support a continuous film > of water in a rainstorm like soapy water does? Perhaps, in the Arizona desert > or in hot and smoggy Los Angeles? And possibly not in another place that gets > many times more rain? Do hams have to start waxing their transmission lines?! > I forgot to ask Bob the age of his line, but if it's relatively new, maybe > it's still able to shed water effectively? Maybe Bob lives in an area where > stuff left outside stays relatively clean? Maybe all window line isn't > equal... maybe some PE is better than others?? I don't know the answers to > any of these questions. > > We may prefer open-wire line (or coax) to window line for good reasons, but I > believe it's rash to dismiss window line on the basis of "its loss goes way > up when wet". Up, yes. Way up? Probably not. High enough to make a big > difference? I doubt it. In planning a new antenna installation, hams should > choose the most convenient transmission line for their needs, and should not > feel guilty nor apprehensive for choosing window line if they see fit to do > so. > > > Al? W6LX/4 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:26:13 -0700 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [OT] Loss in window line [OPINION] [LONG] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > I concur with the conclusion that water has little effect on window line. I > base this on my own experience using window line for years. I always feed it > into a tuner and, if water has any effect on the line, I have to adjust the > settings of the tuner. It is only necessary to adjust the tuner under very > heavy rain. Anything resembling a normal amount of water on the line has > essentially no effect, even after years of dirt buildup. > > Years ago, when I had a swimming pool, I spanned the pool with a length of > underwater ladder line and made some simple measurements that indicated only > a nominal change. And pool water is purposely chlorinated, which increases > the conductivity, although I don't know by how much. > > 73 de dave > ab9ca > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 14, 2022, at 11:00, Al Lorona <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Whenever somebody mentions "window line" here, one of the first objections >> raised is that "when it gets wet, it has very high loss". >> >> The landmark paper cited is by Wes Stewart, N7WS, which can be found here: >> https://www.sadxa.org/n7ws/Ladder_Line.pdf . >> >> I'm not trying to discredit that paper in any way, but I'd like to point out >> two things to keep in mind the next time you hear someone completely and >> summarily dismiss window line on the grounds that it has "high loss when >> wet", and citing that paper: >> >> 1. You should note that Wes took measurements at 50 MHz. Window line is >> rarely used at that frequency, and anyway the loss has to be extrapolated >> back down to the HF region. For instance, if wet window line has a loss of >> 5.2 dB at 50 MHz, the loss at 10 MHz is only 2.3 dB and at 3.5 MHz is 1.4 >> dB. (See the paper for the equation to extrapolate to another frequency.) >> 1.4 dB sounds a heck of a lot better than 5.2, and is on par with 100 feet >> of the best coax you can buy. (We are talking only about matched line loss >> here, and ignoring additional loss due to SWR.) So that's the first thing. >> >> 2. Wes's method involved the now legendary use of a "wetting agent" (I >> assume soap of some kind) added to the water he sprayed onto his 12-foot >> sample of transmission line to simulate rainy conditions on weathered line. >> To be fair, Wes himself cautioned that this probably created a worst-case >> scenario but judging from other references on the web this wetting agent has >> been blamed for excessively inflating the loss to the point of questioning >> the relevance of the experiment. DJ0IP and G3TXQ have both claimed that (see >> http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/wet_ll/ ). In G3TXQ's case, he was able to >> replicate Wes's results by using "a few drops of washing-up liquid" but he >> states, "It is not clear whether the high losses associated with using the >> wetting agent were due to the more complete wetting of the line or to some >> electrical properties of the agent. Nor is it clear how well this test >> represents conditions that will be experienced in the 'real world'." >> >> What's happening to the line when it gets wet, and why should it's >> characteristics change at all? To answer this, understand that in balanced >> line, the energy is carried in the field between the conductors. Window line >> has mostly polyethylene (PE) between the wires which has a dielectric >> constant of 2.3, as opposed to air's which is 1.0. Spraying water-- which >> has a dielectric constant of 80-- onto PE insulation changes the material >> properties between the conductors and, thus, the capacitance. As capacitance >> changes, so does everything else: velocity factor, impedance, and loss. One >> thing saving us from a catastrophic change in properties is that water tends >> to bead up and remain as droplets, and droplets don't like to stay connected >> with other droplets. So if you looked at a path perpendicularly across the >> surface of the line, you'd see individual, sparse drops rather than a >> continuous film of water. >> >> I couldn't find the dielectric constant of soapy water anywhere on the web >> -- but let's assume that the number is close to that of pure water: 80. If >> you could somehow give the field a *continuous* path of water from one side >> to the other on the window line, you'd have significantly altered the >> dielectric constant of the PE; you'd essentially have added a new "path" in >> "parallel" with the PE with a dielectric constant some 35 times higher. >> Although it would be a very thin layer, it nonetheless could have a >> significant effect, as N7WS and G3TXQ have shown. >> >> We also have an important data point from Bob, K4TAX, showing that the loss >> of Bob's window line is pretty much unaffected by rain, although the >> electrical length does change. I'll address why this might be later on, but >> the point is that this is credible, measured data. Why are these data so >> different? >> >> I did discover that soapy water's pH is above 10 -- possibly as high as 12-- >> indicating that there are abundant salts present, probably sodium and/or >> potassium. These dissolved salts strongly ionize the water, greatly >> increasing its conductivity (and perhaps changing its other electromagnetic >> characteristics). On the other hand, rain water is essentially pure, much >> closer to distilled water, with relatively few contaminants capable of being >> ionized. (See >> https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/docs/cwt/guidance/3130en.pdf). >> >> >> Having said all of this, when you study the G3TXQ paper I mentioned earlier, >> there's a glaring data point: Steve measured nearly constant, high loss, >> using soapy water, *from 7 through 30 MHz*. This confirms that an effect of >> the soap is swamping out everything else. In other words, there's something >> *in the soap itself* that is skewing the measurements beyond its intended >> purpose. He just wanted the soap to make the water cling better, but it >> ended up perturbing the very thing he was trying to measure (loss) way too >> much. It's a little bit like taking a lot of vitamin D for health, which >> causes you to become constipated! >> >> My conclusion is that using soap to make the water cling to the window line >> was a brilliant idea but may have introduced much more error into the >> measurement. I believe the trend is correct -- that clinging water will >> increase loss-- but the absolute numbers aren't as realistic. G3TXQ's data >> also shows loss he measured during moderate rainfall, but the increase is >> from about 0.2 dB to 0.35 dB per 100 feet at 10 MHz. This is inconsequential >> at the other end of the QSO, and is still far better than the best coax you >> can buy. >> >> I guess one question is, as window line ages and gets attacked by smog, >> becomes dirtier and more sun-baked, will it in fact support a continuous >> film of water in a rainstorm like soapy water does? Perhaps, in the Arizona >> desert or in hot and smoggy Los Angeles? And possibly not in another place >> that gets many times more rain? Do hams have to start waxing their >> transmission lines?! I forgot to ask Bob the age of his line, but if it's >> relatively new, maybe it's still able to shed water effectively? Maybe Bob >> lives in an area where stuff left outside stays relatively clean? Maybe all >> window line isn't equal... maybe some PE is better than others? I don't >> know the answers to any of these questions. >> >> We may prefer open-wire line (or coax) to window line for good reasons, but >> I believe it's rash to dismiss window line on the basis of "its loss goes >> way up when wet". Up, yes. Way up? Probably not. High enough to make a big >> difference? I doubt it. In planning a new antenna installation, hams should >> choose the most convenient transmission line for their needs, and should not >> feel guilty nor apprehensive for choosing window line if they see fit to do >> so. >> >> >> Al W6LX/4 >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[email protected] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [email protected] > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [email protected] > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > You must be a subscriber to post. > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > End of Elecraft Digest, Vol 213, Issue 6 > **************************************** ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[email protected] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [email protected]
